Talk:Jules Dervaes

A few points in response to Iluvwikigirl ( see User talk:Iluvwikigirl)

1) the web page urbanhomestead.org legally belongs to Jules Dervaes. [1]
Registrant Name:jules dervaes
Registrant Organization:jules dervaes
Even if he never posts to the web site himself, he still legally controls the site and is responsible for anything that occurs on the site.

2) Michael Nolan has a screen shot accessible from his page that shows per Copyscape that the material was used at least 5 times on web pages associated with Jules Dervaes [2]

3) There seems to be a general agreement that the material was used without permission. Neither side says that Michael Nolan was asked for permission, and both agree that Michael Nolan wishes that the material be removed from any web sites associated with the Dervaes.

4) It would appear that Iluvwikigirl is claiming fair use of the material. As it was taken from a commercial source and is being used by a different commercial source, I am not sure how that claim would stand. Then again that's not really for me to say; if the sources describing the editorial oversight/plagiarism meet the condition set forth in WP:V, we should use those sources and describe it as they have described it. If they do not meet WP:V, then we should not say anything on the subject per WP:BLP.

I would also point out that per the quote on Baycitizen.org[3] - On the phone this afternoon Jules Dervaes acknowledged sending the letter to 16 organizations and businesses (including two publishers), and requesting that the Facebook pages be taken down. He did want to clarify that – contrary to some rumors – he has not gone after blogs or individuals. “They're all commercial ventures that rival us,” he said. Because the Dervaeses travel often for workshops and talks, he says, the trademark is applicable outside of their hometown of Los Angeles. - If he is protecting his commercial interests in the trademark case, then it is hard to see how a different standard would apply in the above case, meaning how could he be operating as a commercial entity in one case, and a non-profit in the other. It seems that the two have become mixed. Brimba (talk) 02:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Plagiarism section

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jules_Dervaes&oldid=417697755

The “Plagiarism” section does not meet the Wikipedia criteria for a Neutral Point of View WP:NPOV, which is particularly critical in Biographies of Living Persons WP:BLP.

1) The section gives “undue weight” WP:UNDUE: “An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject. For example, discussion of isolated events, criticisms, or news reports about a subject may be verifiable and neutral, but still be disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic. This is a concern especially in relation to recent events that may be in the news.” (Retrieved 7 March 2011)

2) The source of this section is one blog. No reliable third-party sources reporting this matter are cited. WP:V

3) Michael Nolan’s blog post (as retrieved 7 March 2011) post cited one paragraph used on three Path to Freedom websites, and one sentence from that same paragraph on a fourth website.

4) The uncredited paragraph mentioned in Michael Nolan’s blog post on 3 March 2011 was subsequently edited by Anais Dervaes on 4 March 2011 and noted as edited in three of the places where it appeared; the one sentence on the fourth site was removed and replaced. i) http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2008/08/11/future-of-urban-agriculture/ ii) http://freedomgardens.org/about-2/ iii) http://freedomgardens.org/about-2/history-of-garden-movements/ iv) http://julesdervaes.com/presentations-workshops/topic-examples/

5) The omission and its correction have been further acknowledged by the author, Anais Dervaes, in a separate blog post: http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/2011/03/07/correction-2/

6) As the bylines on the websites indicate, each of the Dervaes family members publishes content for the sites, with daughter Anais Dervaes (not Jules Dervaes) having posted the content that included the paragraph referred to above, and son Justin Dervaes (not Jules Dervaes) having published the blog post referred to in this section. Seek Always (talk) 06:09, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Per WP:NPOV, please feel free to edit. It does not give you the right to engage in section blanking. If you feel it is one sided, please feel free to present the material in a more balanced manner. At the same time it is unlikely that the material will be presented in exactly the manner you desire, after all you represent one side, and there are always at the very least two sides.

1) Jules Dervaes has an entry on Wikipedia because he has gained prominence in one or more areas. In his case it is in gardening, homesteading, urban agriculture, etc. His main source of published works, and the vehicles that have made him notable are his web sites and blogs. If there where accusations that he had been engaged in activity unrelated to the web site/blog, then undue weight would apply, or if the material was limit to Michael Nolan's blog, the same; however, it's been widely discussed over multiple blogs at the very least ( search Google for "Jules Dervaes Michael Nolan"). Because the issue has been widely discussed, giving him a pass on the issue would seem to violate WP:NPOV; if the subject of a page is a living person, that does not mean we only present them in a positive light.

2) Google reports about 88 hits atm for "Jules Dervaes Michael Nolan" including multiple blogs. As I noted in my first post to this page, Jules Dervaes personally described his project as a commercial entity(“They're all commercial ventures that rival us,” he said.), now you, and we do not really know who you are, are trying to walk that back and pull on the mantel of a non-profit, i.e. claim fair use (which is what I assume you are claiming) as a legal protection for using Michael Nolan's work.

I first heard/read of the plagiarism accusation when the article - Urban farming family who trademarked "Urban Homesteading" accused of plagiarism [4] - from Boing Boing which was posted on Google Fast Flip [5].

In addition both parties have published material acknowledging the editorial oversight/plagiarism.

3) You are correct, he is showing three of Jules Dervaes' websites and his Future of Urban Agriculture facebook page as having used the material. So I stand corrected, it was 4 times and not 5 times that the material was used.

4)/5) Its attributed as - Courtesy "Victory Gardens" - and not to Michael Nolan. Nor does the correction mention him as the source. Yes the link to Victory Gardens will get you back to the correct author; why was he not named directly? It still looks to be a straight forward case of copyright infringement; one commercial source lifted copy from another commercial source and is using it without either permission or clear attribution being given to the author of the material. Anyway, the point is that if you say it is resolved, that appears to not be correct. It's not my job to play police officer, its my job to edit and present the material in a fair and impartial manner. Your saying there is no dispute and there never was any dispute, it was just a misunderstanding, however on the face of it that does seem true. If that was true then the material would have been removed on the 4th, or if Jules Dervaes is claiming fair use, then full attribution would have been given, instead it appears to have been "resolved" in a one-sided manner. So if it has been described as plagiarism or copyright infringement, that's because a reasonable case can be made for that description.

6) As Jules Dervaes owns and legally controls the sites, he is responsible for their content. Additionally you are claiming a double standard -there is no attempt to distance Jules Dervaes from his sites, regardless of who posts them, until and unless you consider the material to be negative. When that happens you are claiming that it is unfair to associate Jules Dervaes with the material.

Brimba (talk) 04:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Info about wife and children

I can't find a thing on the web about a wife! Maybe it was out of wedlock? Divorce? Surrogate? death?

And what about the children? Only 3 of 4 live with him. What of the 4th? Skaizun (talk) 14:44, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

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