Talk:Juggalo/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Proposal

I think that the "Aspects" and "Celebrities" sections should be merged, and the overall section could be given a better name that overall describes the content. I almost named "Aspects" as "History", but it didn't sound right for this type of article. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 19:57, 6 April 2009 (UTC))

Celebrities

Most of the celebrities listed as Juggalos have completely unrelated citations. Basically, someone probably vandalized the article then added citations so it would seem legitimate. The citation for Slash, for example, leads to a website that has nothing to do with Slash or his status as a Juggalo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.69.179 (talk) 01:04, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Slash's reference isn't a website, so I don't know what you are looking at. But Slash, along with others, are cited in the book Behind the Paint. Juggalobrink (talk) 19:59, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

• "Rapper Murs Gives Juggalo's Mad Respect". Other News. JuggaloNews.com. January 2009. Retrieved 2009-05-05.
  • Can we get a better citation for MURS? The JuggaloNews article was submitted by a fan, and any video content from YouTube or elsewhere has to have been uploaded by the owner of the video, which doesn't seem to be the case here. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 18:54, 5 May 2009 (UTC))
    • Just did a quick search, and I found one thing that may be acceptable, [1]. That's really the best source I could find.Juggalobrink (talk) 20:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Sources needed/celebrity section

I added the sources needed tag because the primary source for most of that information is from the one of the founders of the record company. Could we get any additional verification? Thanks. 173.73.6.197 (talk) 00:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

• Please explain why Behind the Paint is not a reliable source. Thanks. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 07:11, 21 May 2009 (UTC))

Because they aren't independently verifiable and the one source listed can't be considered unbiased about the subject. There needs to be independent verification, no big deal. But I don't think they should stay in as is. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 12:09, 21 May 2009 (UTC) Also, most of the sources don't work. The vanilla ice and murs ones work, most of the others go to dead links. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 15:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

• There's nothing that says that any of the sources are biased. We have several interviews cited, and the book of a well-known figure in underground hip hop. All of the sources are independently verifiable. Secondly, none of the sources deadlink. That's an outright lie. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 00:44, 22 May 2009 (UTC))

Whoa there little angry dude. Sorry about the deadlink thing. Some of the pages weren't working for me, I saw that they did work on another computer. No need to call me a liar. Kind of pathetic to treat another editor like that. Anyway. Yeah, since you claim that the sources are verifiable, please do so. The one source that I have the biggest problem with is the Behind the Paint writer (Joseph Bruce) founder of the record company/group performer who directly benefits from these claims. Can anyone else back his claims up? Please cross verify and I'll stop all this silly arguing. Also, please stop edit warring with me, I just want the tag on the page until this is cleared up. Thanks. Oh, one of the interview sources is also in Japanese, could we get an english version? 72.66.109.24 (talk) 03:23, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Angry how? I don't seem to remember posting entirely-capitalized messages or otherwise implying anger. Secondly, your suggestion makes no sense. How does Bruce "benefit" from the statements he has made? After all, ICP themselves identify as juggalos. Who benefits from calling yourself a juggalo, and how? Also, I'm not "edit warring" with you. When an editor like yourself repeatedly reverts to a vandalized version of the article, I have to fix it. Understand? (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 09:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC))

Because Bruce is basically saying that other people are a fan of his music and his music company. I want to see a primary source and not a second telling by someone who benefits by claiming that someone is a fan of his music and his company. It's pretty simple. A non-biased source is all I am asking for. And you are edit warring by removing the citations needed tag. I am not trying to remove the claims, I just want to see them properly sourced.72.66.109.24 (talk) 21:44, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SELFPUB#Self-published_and_questionable_sources_as_sources_on_themselves 72.66.109.24 (talk) 21:49, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

However, what you were tagging it as was completely wrong. You were saying that there were no citations when infact there were. I've changed the wording of the section to say "In his book Behind the Paint, Joseph Bruce also claims that ..." and I listed the names. There is nothing wrong with doing that as it is noted that Bruce is the one making the claim. Juggalobrink (talk) 11:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I made a note that none of the claims have been independently verified by the artists, just to make it clear to everyone. Even though the content isn't verifiable and violates wikipedias rules, the disclaimer makes me not care as much. Oh, and maybe instead of removing the tag you could have put the right one up. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 13:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The content is verifiable. It's in a book by a notable individual. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 08:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC))

Stop edit warring PLEASE. Discuss instead of editing. It's a self-published book with serious conflict of interest issues regarding its references to third parties. Read the link I pasted above and stop edit warring, seriously. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 14:05, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

If you intend to legitimately participate in this discussion, learn what the terms you use mean when you use them. this edit is not edit-warring. Secondly, we are not allowed to make any commentary beyond what the sources state. And there is in no way a "conflict of interest". That would require it to be profitable to simply be a juggalo. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 16:19, 25 May 2009 (UTC))

There is a definite conflict of interest. The ICP/Bruce benefit from claiming that other famous musicians and artists are fans of the ICP. Who wouldn't want Slash as a fan of their music group? So there is a very very clear conflict of interest in his self-published book. You should discuss materials before reverting my edits which have all been in good faith. I comment here every single time I make an edit and I leave an edit summary. If only the other editors on this page were so courteous. So if you don't want to compromise with a qualifier than the material must be removed. Have you read the link I posted above, here it is again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SELFPUB#Self-published_and_questionable_sources_as_sources_on_themselves 72.66.109.24 (talk) 16:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Except that, in the documentary Shockumentary, Slash himself states that he is a fan of ICP (and he performed on their Great Milenko album). (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 16:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC))

Do you have a link to a reliable version of the transcript of said documentary? 72.66.109.24 (talk) 16:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, this whole section was removed? Some of these claims where made on the artists websites, I see no reason to remove the whole thing. Also, You can just use Shockumentery as a source that Slash says he's a Juggalo. If you want to check it yourself, search Shockumentery on google video. And someone please revert the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.136.116.187 (talk) 02:01, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Here it is again

Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, especially in articles about themselves, without the requirement that they be published experts in the field, so long as:

  1. the material is not unduly self-serving;
  2. it does not involve claims about third parties;
  3. it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
  4. there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity;
  5. the article is not based primarily on such sources.

So Behind the Paint clearly qualifies as self-published and the material is 1. Self serving and 2. Involves claims about third parties. I guess we should take this to the next level because it all seems very clear cut to me. I know you guys are big fans of the music group but that's not what this is about. Just find a second source to back up each claim or remove the claims. Simple. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 16:36, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

• Bruce and Utsler have stated that juggalos are not purely fans of Psychopathic artists. They call themselves juggalos - are they fans of themselves? Not all ICP fans are juggalos. Juggalos may not even necessarily listen to a Psychopathic artist. The source does not fit the description you give for the purposes in which it is being used. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 16:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC))

Ha ha. The first sentence of the article, "Juggalo or Juggalette (the latter more commonly used for a female) is a name given to fans of Insane Clown Posse or any other Psychopathic Records hip hop group." Wow, seriously, Wow. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 16:48, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

More background from the article, "The term originated during a live performance by Insane Clown Posse. During the song "The Juggla", Bruce addressed the audience as Juggalos, and the positive response resulted in the group using the word thereafter to refer to its fans.[1] The term has also been applied to fans of other Psychopathic Records artists.[2" 72.66.109.24 (talk) 16:50, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I removed the sentence as a policy violation only because you continue to revert my edits. This material does not meet wikipedias sourcing policy. Just because you are a Juffalo doesn't mean you own this page. Please see the appropriate wikipedia policy. Thank you. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

You have no right to interpret the rules however which way you please to allow yourself to edit the article to your liking. Wikipedia doesn't represent what you personally consider to be the truth. What appears in articles like this one is what is stated in verifiable sources. You are not allowed to remove sourced content because it doesn't fit your opinion. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 20:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC))

I believe that I have adequately explained the sourcing issue and provided a link to the relevant policy. I don't understand what your complaint is. I don't think that I am stretching the meaning of wikipedia self-published sources. Please explain more thoroughly and address the points i've made. Thank you. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 21:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you could also do a "request for comment" for this issue, would that be helpful? 72.66.109.24 (talk) 21:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

The rule is referring to instances in which some guy writes a book and prints it himself out of the back of his house. This isn't the same thing at all. Psychopathic Records has to actually go to a printer, and pay them to print copies of the book. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 21:45, 25 May 2009 (UTC))

He prints his books through his own record label. That is very much self-published. His company pays to get his book published. Your arguments are getting more and more spurious. Please open an RFC and stop reverting that changes that I make just because you are a Juffalo and want to show your group in the best light. I understand that. But Behind the Paint is obviously self-published, please follow the link for the exact definition. Thanks. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 21:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, instead of edit warring why don't we look for a compromise that we can both agree on? Thanks. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 21:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

You are the only person who is edit-warring. A compromise was offered. You didn't accept it. You do not get to remove sourced content because you disagree with it, or make bizarre claims that you are unable to back up to justify your actions. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 12:15, 26 May 2009 (UTC))

Okay, well I added the disclaimer in as a compromise. Hope that's okay. It still doesn't meet wikipedia's sourcing guidelines as I have posted above. Your arguments are really weird and I don't understand what you are trying to convey. I don't disagree with Bruce's statement I just want to see it verified. None of the claims I am making are bizarre, as some of the ones you made above are. You're a strange juffalo Ibaranoff24. Oh and please don't threaten to block me. You're the one who won't listen and reverts every change made. Thanks. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 02:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Wrong. It is you who refuses to listen. The material clearly does meet Wikipedia (which is capitalized)'s sourcing guidelines. And how do you get a phrase wrong when you're posting on the talk page of the article about that phrase? (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 15:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC))

Juffalo is a derogatory term used towards Juggalos, which explains his crusade to belittle the article. Juggalobrink (talk) 19:47, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You guys are so weird. "Crusade to belittle the article", what is that? All of tried to do is get proper sourcing for one sentence or to add a disclaimer to make up for the lack of sourcing. That's it. Man, what is wrong with you guys? 72.66.109.24 (talk) 13:15, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

All you've tried to do is attempt to control the article. There is nothing wrong with the way the article is currently sourced, and the disclaimer is not needed. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 15:46, 30 May 2009 (UTC))

I respectfully disagree. I think that one sentence needs to be properly sourced. JBSupreme agrees that we should at least look into it and make sure it is up to wikipedia standards. Please leave the disclaimer in until we get some impartial opinions on this. I don't see how I am trying to "control" the article. I am just looking to have proper sourcing for one statement. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 20:53, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way the article had already been formatted after you first complained about it. You are not allowed to add your own commentary alongside sourced material. The article should only state what is sourced. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 02:46, 1 June 2009 (UTC))

" The article should only state what is sourced.", then we should remove the whole sentence. Until then I would like a disclaimer until some more non-biased editors can take a look. Thanks. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 10:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

No, we shouldn't. The sentence is sourced. It specifically states where the information comes from and gives proper attribution. A redundant disclaimer is not needed. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 14:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC))

I disagree. I don't think the self-published source qualifies as a reliable source as per wikipedia rules, outlined above. Please explain why this self-published source qualifies as a source that can make self-serving claims about third parties. Thanks you. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 12:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

As established here, Behind the Paint is not a self-published source per Wikipedia rules. You might not agree with it, but it doesn't fit the rule. The difference here is obvious. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 17:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC))

Sorry buddy, you might need to look up the definition of "established". It is not even close to being established, there is still a very strong difference of opinion. I am open to more discussion but your arguments are quite strange. Please explain how it is not a self published source. Thanks. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 01:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Try reading the posts that you didn't write. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 01:51, 4 June 2009 (UTC))

Try making a cogent argument or supporting what you write with facts. It would certainly help. 11:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.66.109.24 (talk)

What appears in the article is sourced. What you believe is or is not a fact does not matter. Wikipedia is not designed to support your personal opinion. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 21:06, 4 June 2009 (UTC))

Cogent argument or supporting what you write with facts. Still waiting. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 22:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Why are you trying to hide the fact that your argument doesn't make any sense? The content is clearly sourced. You just don't agree with it. Ibaranoff24 (talk) 23:02, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why you won't listen to me or other editors. It's really weird what you are doing. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 04:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

This is excruciatingly weird. The editors on the BLP and the Administrators Noticeboard both seem to agree that this is a BLP issue. It's like you're totally detached from everything that has happened. I don't understand what you are thinking. But I am going to start ignoring you. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 11:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

It is you who are not listening. No other editor agrees with you on this. You have been repeatedly trying to control the article's content. Stop it. Your types of edits are not welcome here. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 05:41, 5 June 2009 (UTC))

But you just removed the content at the insistence of all the other editors who agree with me and not with you. Something strange is happening with you, I wish you the best of luck in life. Take care. 72.66.109.24 (talk) 11:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

No editors agree with you. Your continued arrogance astounds me. This is why no one thinks that your edits are in good faith. Please troll somewhere else. Thank you. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC))

You might want to raise this issue at WP:BLPN, it might get more attention than on this talk page. We should strive to obtain reliable third party sources for the material we include on Wikipedia at all times, especially when dealing with content related to living people. JBsupreme (talk) 07:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Perspective

It seems like there's a great deal of apologetic rhetoric in this article from Psychopathic Records and ICP regarding Juggalos. Really though, given the content of their lyrics and the choice of "Psychopathic" as their label's name, is it REALLY just coincidence that a significant number of Juggalos are psychopathic and/or psychopaths are Juggalos? Might the music and message appeal to those with such tendencies? How about a little more balance? Or at least a contrasting viewpoint? Cinemageddon (talk) 19:56, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

• You take music far too seriously, based on your tone. These are fictional stories. It's absolutely not neutral to imply that any form of music is responsible for any individual's actions. The aim is not to be apologetic, just to state the facts, without expressing opinions. Often rap and horror fans are made out to be far more violent than they actually are by individuals within the media who do not like the content of the works whose fans they criticize. Wikipedia is not supposed to reflect their opinion, or the fans' opinion. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 22:59, 26 August 2009 (UTC))

"Fictional stories"? I'm not saying the music is responsible for an individual's action, but ICP promotes misogyny, hard drug use, domestic violence, religious, sexual and ethnic hate crimes and sexual abuse. Openly. In all their work. I'm just saying maybe there's a correlation - that it's not some 'random coincidence'. Cinemageddon (talk) 01:46, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

• This entirely is your opinion, and none of it relates to what is sourced, or what actually appears in the songs. ICP promotes none of these things. Their music is against spouse-beating, hard drug use, hate crimes and sexual abuse. You are clearly not paying attention. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 17:27, 8 September 2009 (UTC))

Perhaps in the Juggalo community multiple murders are considered 'minor news', but law enforcement in California and Pennsylvania are taking such matters more seriously, and have both recently classified Juggalos as a gang. Why you feel this isn't relevant and deleted this information from the article I'm not sure, but perhaps you aren't being as NPOV as you like to think you are. The article has had a long-standing section about Juggalos being considered gangs in Utah and Arizona. Why this was left in by you and the California and Pennsylvania additions deleted is unclear.

Also, this is the THIRD time I'm saying this, and I'm trying to keep it simple for you, I'm not saying ICP's music CAUSES these 'fictional stories', anymore than red or blue bandannas cause violence between Crips and Bloods, but there IS a correlation. Dave Brubeck or Mozart fans commit a small fraction of the violent crimes that ICP followers do, despite having a larger fan base.

As far as lyrical content, I'm not sure how "clearly" I'm not paying attention. Would you REALLY like me to post representative examples of ICP lyrics that back up my earlier point? (About misogyny, hard drug use, domestic violence, religious, sexual and ethnic hate crimes and sexual abuse) Cinemageddon (talk) 03:34, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

• Repeatedly stating that there is a connection between violent media and real violent actions does not make it so. Human beings are responsible for their own actions. It is not NPOV to blame any action on a fictional work. ICP's lyrics are freely available to read on other websites. Reading these lyrics clearly shows the exact opposite of the claims you make about these lyrics promoting these things. They've never promoted religious, sexual, or ethnic hate crimes, sexual abuse, hard drug use or domestic violence. "Halls of Illusions" for example, is about wife-beaters and child abusers going to hell. Please do a little more research about the music you criticize before making such generalizations. (Ibaranoff24 (talk) 23:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC))

It is not Intelligent to speak of or talk in educating terms when you do not know enough about the subject in question. Also a one sided opinion is no place for a logical argument, Scientific neutrality is the only way to win this. The facts will tell all regardless of opinion or bigotry. This is what i have introduced into a documentary on the subject in question. Note the fact that ICP and their music has little to do with this entry. You want to blame the group as a whole for a few teens doing stupid teen things. This is your way out and excuse to bitch, these kids do nothing different from anyone else their age. They are just trying to find their way as the rest of them. Most need guidance very badly but most will do what they feel like whether a governing body of the "gang" or club they belong says so or not. When the topic is pushed this part of the issue will rise and your whole law gang thing will be thrown out. No government will condemn a group because of suck week accusations specially when said occurrences are done by individuals not groups. Its a tried issue one that has never won in any court whether its video games or movies this is no different. You have ran out of weaknesses to exploit to shut us down, other issues are personal something you cannot touch. So its time to run along and do something else than worry what others are doing. juggaloinvasion 06:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Also as well?

"Juggalos have also been classified as a gang in Arizona as well."

Please pick either "also" or "as well." Both should not be used in this sentence. I'd edit it, but the article is semi-protected. Thanks. 24.47.154.230 (talk) 23:53, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

 Done Sounds like a Will Ferrell spoof of The Architect. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 00:24, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Link broken

link 25 broken —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.62.20 (talk) 07:55, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it is; I've tagged it as a  Chzz  ►  07:33, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

NPOV

Obviously written by a fan...not blatant but it uses slang as if it were standard English...not encyclopedia quality. PurpleChez (talk) 10:58, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from ObviouslyEnd, 25 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The first 3 references I chose to view were bad links. The references were 25,26,and 27. This articles obviously needs to be reviewed.

ObviouslyEnd (talk) 22:42, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.--mono 00:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

References

I admittedly have no idea what the process is for this kind of thing, so I'm just going to mention here that at least one of the references is broken (that being number 25, linking here http://www.rep-am.com/news/local/doc4b2772bb2ae52929617719.txt). Aryst0krat (talk) 01:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

References for currently citeless footnote about schools banning ICP gear.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20041109/ai_n10041927/ refers to a ban by certain Colorado Springs schools.

http://trib.com/news/article_2db8b9b0-b608-55e2-9ef0-aed3af899911.html refers to a ban in Natrona County, Wyoming.

Other more vague reports, not necessarily identifying a specific school system, can be found via Google or other search engines. Several geographically-anonymous inquiries in Yahoo Answers and elsewhere have discussed how to approach bans stated to be in effect at the question-poster's school. A number of school systems and individual schools (including, at last report, the Houston Independent School System) are reported to have bans on provocatively-decorated clothing which probably violate the First Amendment; once again, many can be found via Google. Some school system have sidestepped the First Amendment issue by adopting a school uniform instead of trying to regulate independently-produced items of attire; policy statements in support of these have routinely cited the ease with which gang affiliation and rituals can be rendered invisible on school grounds via uniforms, although they don't state it that way since it would be an admission that the uniforms do not actually address the core problem.

Shirtmonger (talk) 18:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Juggalo Targeting`

So, what does the Juggalo group use to determine who they will invite to their next annual meeting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.25.178.60 (talk) 14:27, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 72.198.87.69, 17 September 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} method man and redman have both talked to icp and neither plan to sue methodman and redman are both long standing friends of icp and the juggalos

72.198.87.69 (talk) 13:24, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Celestra (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 24.19.237.82, 6 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} There was recently a shooting in Maple Valley Washington involving a person believed to be involved in the juggalo gang. He shot a victim through the chest and the bullet passed through and hit his girlfriend in the head. Both victims survived, and the shooter was charged with a double assault.

Source: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/112836974.html

24.19.237.82 (talk) 05:57, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.   — Jeff G.  ツ 06:13, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Page locked?

I know this isn't a talk page but I was just wondering, why is this page locked from editing? Juggalo Dan 420 (talk) 04:40, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually, this is the talk page. The article is semi-protected, which means that any autoconfirmed user can edit it. See WP:SILVERLOCK and WP:AUTOCONFIRM. Elizium23 (talk) 04:44, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Juggalo Dan 420 (talk) 04:48, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 99.160.254.130, 30 August 2011

Rap Artist Tech N9ne also is a self proclaimed Juggalo... Just something you might want to add to the list.

99.160.254.130 (talk) 06:51, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Do you have a source in support of this? --Jnorton7558 (talk) 06:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the link to "Gangs in the United States"

Someone added a "See Also" link to Gangs in the United States, which I've removed. The article makes no reference to Juggalos, who are (for the most part) music fans, not gang members, so I'm assuming it's vandalism.

Luvanger666 (talk) 03:03, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Juggalo Holocaust

Why is there no mention of the JH in the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.126.189 (talk) 02:09, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Add that they are now considered a gang by the FBI

yeah its ridiculous but should be added to the page Vowellpuny (talk) 01:33, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

They all need to go die in a hole. Saddest excuse for people on this planet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.89.216.242 (talk) 15:35, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Unconstructive edits

Why are people allowed to add unconstructive content to the talk page? Particularly when it's loathsome, vile hate speech. If this were a discussion page concerning any other topic, such edits would immediately be reverted. The bias against juggalos is reflected outright by the negligence of the users here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newt Toad (talk • contribs) 23:48, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Article for deletion

It is time once again to discuss deleting this from Wikipedia, I believe now any ICP page referring to it's fandom should be WP:COI — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fyrre (talk • contribs) 16:03, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

• I just went through your contributions page. Almost every edit that you've made over the last six years has been to delete an article related to Insane Clown Posse, challenge the neutrality of an article related to Insane Clown Posse, or remove content from an article related to Insane Clown Posse, not to mention your own admission that "Trashing this shitty rap group is merely a hobby." As such, I would call into question the neutrality of your editing. If there is conflict of interest editing going on, it must be yours. I know I'm usually supposed to assume good faith, but your editing is so obviously contrary to the point of Wikipedia that I won't bother. Feel free to nominate the article for deletion. It will amount to nothing, just like all of the other times you've tried it. When that fails, please find a new hobby. Luvanger666 (talk) 02:02, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Not A Gang

The Juggalos are just a family. thats all we are NOT a gang. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.226.172.25 (talk) 16:10, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 July 2012

I was hoping there could be a section added titled Artwork, it is part of our class project to evaluate a Wikipedia page. I chose juggalos because I know a few people who are juggalos and I watched Workaholics and laughed my A** off at the Straight up Juggahos episode. Hopefully the section can give a brief statment about Juggalos and artwork, and a couple pages linked to juggalos and artwork are two of the credible sources I can provide.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Juggalo-Artwork/187261831294353 http://juggalos.deviantart.com/

Thank You NativeLG1

NativeLG1 (talk) 14:52, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Not done: I'm sorry, Facebook and DeviantART are not reliable sources. Floating Boat (the editor formerly known as AndieM) 16:01, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request

i don't have sufficient privileges to link my new article Criminal activity attributed to Juggalos to the main juggalo article. can someone do this for me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnerTown (talk • contribs) 09:47, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done. Luvanger666 (talk) 09:51, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Is this article ever going to settle down and be fair?

Hello, all,

Let me make clear from the start that I am neither a fan nor a critic of Insane Clown Posse. I only know that they exist. I can't even recall hearing any of their music. However, as a neutral party reading the present rendition of this article, I am struck by the editors' inabilities to make the simple distinction between fan groups and criminal enterprises.

As the article now reads, there seems to have been no research to discover whether or not ICP or any Juggalo/Juggalette fan groups have worked with charities, thrown benefit concerts, or otherwise positively involved themselves in community affairs.

There also seems to be no recognition of the fact that while some Juggalos may have committed criminal acts, there is no way that either ICP or a fan group could have prevented those crimes.

The Juggalos and ICP may not or may be criminals; I have no opinion on that. However, like anyone appearing in WP, they deserve good faith coverage until proof of bad acts can be offered. This is especially true in this case, because of WP:BLP.

Georgejdorner (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

It may not be a very good article, but it does reflect the balance of the sources. BLP would apply to the Insane Clown Posse article but doesn't apply to this article about a subculture. If you know of well-sourced balancing material please add it. Martinlc (talk) 22:03, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I added some content about charity, community and benefit activity of Juggalos. More content should be added by anyone who has the proper sources and such. BigBabyChips (talk) 00:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

'Gang trends' section

This seems to be reliant almost entirely on primary and/or questionable sources. If there isn't sufficient evidence from mainstream secondary sources, it should be deleted. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

There are quite a few secondary sources on the main page. I do think that some of the content that was recently trimmed from this section of the Juggalo page should be reinstated, because I don't think that it's clear enough on the fact that Juggalo gang members and Juggalo fans are different entities. AnnerTown (talk) 06:53, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Nope - the 'gang' article has exactly the same problem. If Juggalo gang members are 'different entities', they probably shouldn't be discussed here at all - instead, there should be a note at the top of the page with a link to the 'gang' article. We don't need to cover the same material twice. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:43, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Merging of Criminal Activity

Hello there, The page "Criminal Activity associated with Juggalos" was nominated to be merged with this main page. I expanded the current section to include the main topics discussed in the subset. I tried to highlight the important information about the gang-affiliated Juggalos while still preserving the nonviolent Juggalos independent identity.

I believe that Juggalo's connection to gang related activity should be included in this article because they are a branch of the Juggalo subculture, interests, and lifestyles. As long as we maintain that violent Juggalos do not represent the whole subculture, the inclusion of Juggalo criminal activity makes this article more comprehensive and unbiased.

Jax 23:35, 10 February 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacmaykt (talk • contribs)

good job. i have gone ahead and redirected that article here. Xerofox (talk) 19:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Typo (riciduled)

Hi there. Look for the word "riciduled". Anyone able to fix this? -Concernedresident's butler ^{OMG! Ponies!} 13:22, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Community Service and Non-Conformism Should Be Addressed

About 20% of the congregation at the church around the corner are Juggalos .. but aside from responding to "whoop whoop" calls and enjoying "Killer Klowns from Outer Space" they don't seem much like Wikepedia's description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggalo

Eureka, Humboldt County California, Juggalos seem genuinely interested in providing community services and developing communities. I think an interest in community development is an important component of the juggalo philosophy. They are non-conformist and have a strong dislike of branding. Dress and hairstyle are perceived more as highly individualized artistic expressions than attempts to fit into a scene.

I have concerns that the article is not objective. Is it possible that the Juggalo scene has gone further and become something much more, and much different, than a fan club -- that maybe something else evolved out of it? I think it is and that's what has happened and that the wikie entry as it is, without mentioning community service, noncoformity, and expressive clothing and hair styles, actually quite misleading.

Just my two cents.

This article does mention "Juggalos Making A Difference" and other examples of community service. Articles should reflect what reliable sources have to say on the subject. If you feel this article is misrepresenting the situation, it's best to try and find better sources. Obviously different communities are going to behave differently, and that's no different with Juggalos, and by definition, it's hard to pin-down a non-conformist which makes it difficult to write about. The difficulty is in finding sources that discuss these issues. If you know of any, that would be great, but personal experiences are what's called original research, and are probably not usable. Grayfell (talk) 02:34, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Spanish

I actually don't know to correctly write on Wikipedia, so sorry in advance for that. Just wanted to say that it's also "juggalo" instead of "juggala" (indeed, not capitalizing the first letter) in Spanish speaking countries (I am Spanish and know it enough, but anyway you could read that word written right like that, a lot of times, here: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insane_Clown_Posse). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.136.90.166 (talk) 00:39, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

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Draft:Juggalo March

Page watchers are invited to assist with the expansion of the planned Juggalo March in Washington, D.C., in September, here: Draft:Juggalo March. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:58, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

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Spanish Translation?

No need to provide the term's Spanish translation in the first sentence of the article. --63.243.196.34 (talk) 04:42, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

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Juggalo March article nominated for deletion

Resolved

The Juggalo March article has been nominated for deletion. You can view the ongoing discussion here. Thanks, ---Another Believer _(Talk) 01:26, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Request for edit.

A relatively popular web comic called Homestuck has made multiple references to Juggalos. I feel this should be an added fact under "In popular media".

Evidence of it being referenced: http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Insane_Clown_Posse — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhoenixJCC (talk • contribs) 09:33, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2018

Add as follows to the "In Popular Media" section of the page. "Juggalos are heavily referenced in the webcomic Homestuck " PhoenixJCC (talk) 19:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC)  Not done: Wikia is not a reliable source. If you can find a news article that discusses the Juggalo fandom's inclusion in HS, feel free to request again. Nanophosis (talk) 02:45, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

References

Meaning

What does the name mean, how was it derived in the current sense, and is it related to juggling? Maikel (talk) 10:29, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

A man in Juggalo face paint next to a small child

What is the point of the image captioned "A man in Juggalo face paint next to a small child"? There is no reason to include the face of a minor in this. --75.33.69.211 (talk) 02:27, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Modern Revision

A juggalo (feminine juggalette, or juggala in Spanish)[1] is a fan of the group Insane Clown Posse or any other Psychopathic Records hip hop group. Juggalos have developed their own idioms, slang, and characteristics.[2] The Gathering of the Juggalos,[3] alternatively known as just "The Gathering", is a notable annual festival held by juggalos and the artists that they support, which have included rap stars such as Busta Rhymes, Ice Cube, and MC Hammer; over its first eleven events (2000–2010),[needs update] the festival drew a total attendance of about 107,500 fans, averaging nearly 9,800 per year, with a peak of 20,000 in 2010.[4]

A Juggalo (Feminine Juggalette) is an individual identifying or belonging to the culture known as The Juggalo Movement or The Juggalo Family, who mainly consist of a collective people with a diversity of backgrounds and spiritual beliefs ranging from a wide range from Christianity, Buddhism, Gnosticism and several branches of paganism or no religious views at all, but usually a common underlying view point of world peace, justice and comradery for the socially shunned as well as an often unspoken rejection of themes such as racism, pedophilia, domestic violence, injustice for the lower class and treachery, while themes that are usually praised and represented are comprised of moral values such as the most common example being the "Family" structure of friendship, loyalty, and dependability. Most of these topics can be expressed through many branches of Juggalo music, stemming from bands most known for Juggalo representation such as The Insane Clown Posse, Tech N9ne, Esham The Unholy, Twiztid, Ouija Macc and many other bands and artists under the umbrella of Juggalo music. Often times, either record labels or private land owners will host events lasting for several days in which Juggalos bands and an other artistic affiliates will perform on stages, from the likes of MC Hammer, Ice Cube, Busta Rhymes, Attilla and Gwar, with one such multi-day event being The Gathering Of The Juggalos (GOTJ) or simply The Gathering, hosted by Psychopathic Records, which has seen 21 years of attendance, with only 1 year of absence in 2020 due to the COVID-19 pandemic lockdown, however smaller Gatherings were hosted world wide on scales of a lesser mass by other Juggalo groups.

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2022

495 × 662 pixels. Original file ‎(495 × 662 pixels, file size: 665 KB, MIME type: image/png)

File information Structured data Captions Edit

English Add a one-line explanation of what this file represents Summary Edit

Description English: A Juggalo on his bike, celebrating in Oakland, California. Date 9 January 2019 Source Own work Author Brodiesel710 Licensing Edit

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license: w:en:Creative Commons attribution share alike

This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license. 2601:645:500:EFE:DA2:A0A1:7433:AA73 (talk) 06:23, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 💜  melecie  talk - 06:29, 14 April 2022 (UTC)