Talk:Juan Orlando Hernández

First Lady

The page as of May 2017 links to the Spanish-language Wikipedia for the article on Ana Garcia Carías, which could pose problems for non-Spanish speakers seeking more information on the topic. An English-language page should be created. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.248.211.180 (talk) 22:58, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

President elect

He is not the president elect till the TSE say so so DO NOT make unsourced claims claiming he has won or anything of the sort♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 19:59, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Unsourced

A lot of unsourced claims were made but this si not acceptable for the next President of Honduras, these claims such as his experience must be sourced or not returned♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 21:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I have now removed the BLP tag after addressing this issue of unsourced material♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 21:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

End date for President of National Congress

I'm pretty sure he's still technically the President of the National Congress. Leading up to the elections, I never once saw him referred to as the former president of the congress, but rather always as the president. The cited source states "le autorizó un permiso para ausentarse de sus funciones" which doesn't imply to me that he renounced the position, just the responsibilities. I checked the National Congress website, but it's shut down at the moment by Anonymous. This cached version has the dates 2010-2014 uninterrupted. -- Irn (talk) 23:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

That is a primary source, this is the secondary source which I had ref'd in the text and have now done so in the infobox. There has been nobody to replace him as far as I am aware♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 23:49, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I previously quoted that sourced article. I think you're misinterpreting it (see above). Also, primary sources can be used for this sort of information. -- Irn (talk) 01:10, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

How am I misinterpreting it? Its important that we get this right, which certainly means including the secondarily sourced info as it is and not perhaps as we want to interpret it. I am not saying we cant use primary sources but its dubious where a secondary source contradicts the primary source, and in these cases we dont assume the primary source is the correct one♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 01:17, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Well I have tried to make everything fit the secondary source which actualyl doesnt conflict with the thus unnecessary primary source♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 01:34, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the compromise. I appreciate that. However, I note that you used the word "retire", which I think is wrong. "Retirarse" doesn't really translate as "retire" so much as "separate himself". Like a married couple getting separated is not a divorce, JOH didn't retire from the Congress or renounce his position, he just took a leave of absence to campaign.

I want to add that many different sources from just before and after the election refer to him as the current President of the National Congress.[1] [2][3][4][5] And the official page of the National Congress lists him as the President still.[6] -- Irn (talk) 18:06, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I agree that retirarse means withdraw oneself, jubilar is retire as in give up work though "retire from" is of course not the same as retire in English, and doesnt mean to become a pensioner or give up work, ie "retire from" is an adequate translation of retirarse, jubilar would not be. Still and all, dejar is to leave and I have changed the ref and the wording in the infobox to fulfil your request. I have to say none of your sources are talking about JOH leaving Congress and we dont just have the tiempo source that he did just that in June, ie [7] (where the article talks of not knowing who will replace him for 8 months) [8] (where article talks of him being replaced by one of the various vice-presidents) [9] [10]. So we have articles that say he leaves Congress, we dont have any that deny this. I am certainly not happy with allowing a Guatemalan newspaper (Prensa Libre) or a Mexican newspaper (El Universo) or a Puerto Rican newspaper (El Nuevo Día) as more reliable on this issue than the 4 main Honduras press (and I define them as such cos they are the ones sold on the streets), none of which appear in your sources, and all of which appear in mine, where the articles are specific to the subject. I would suggest we need specific information that in spite of his withdrawal he is still actually head of the Congress, we dont have anything remotely close to this so far. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 18:36, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this is a bit confusing, but two of those sources quote JOH saying that Congress has ways to function without the president being there: "El Congreso Nacional tiene un esquema de una junta directiva y está diseñado para que si el presidente del Congreso no está en la sesión también funcione, hay varios vicepresidentes" and another one says that the position is "irrenunciable". I see nothing saying that he no longer holds that title, nothing referring to him as the former President of the Congress, and nothing mentioning any successor. In other words, we have nothing that says that he does not hold that title any more. Again, the official page of the National Congress lists him as its President in two different places. -- Irn (talk) 19:18, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I think the sources are pretty clear that he has left Congress, doesnt mean that they have elected someone to replace him, indeed that is unlikely given that such an occurrence would have been publicized. The only point I see at issue is the Political Offices box at the bottom, I think in the text and the infobox we have it just right given the secondary sources we have to work with and we certainly cannot ignore his well publicized withdrawal from Congress in June for the well publicized reason that he needed to attend to his campaign full time. What changes would you like to see from the article as it is currently? ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 19:23, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I see taking a leave of absence as a minor detail, especially in this situation considering that no one ever even replaced him. As such, I don't think it merits mention in the lead (later in the article is fine) or in the infobox. And I would like to see no end date listed until he officially leaves the position in 2014. -- Irn (talk) 19:53, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, I dont consider what you are desiring to be a satisfactory solution at all, I think we absolutely need to mention his retiring from Congress in the opening if we mention him being Head of Congress in the opening, and definitely in the infobox too as long as his position is mentioned there rather than making out he is acting Head of Congress till January, that would be being dishonest to our readers given the sources we have to work with that contradict this, we cant just ignore those secondary sources. I dont consider his retiring from Congress a minor detail and there is no evidence to back up your belief that it is, remember the reliable secondary sources that are actually talking about the issue in a substantial way (rather than in passing in an article on a different theme such as JOH winning the presidential election) all indicate he ceased to be the actual Head of Congress in June, one primary source doesnt contradict that satisfactorily, this is Honduras and we cant guarantee the primary source has simply failed to updated and the fact that it doesnt mention his withdrawal from Congress should set alarm bells ringing in terms of its reliability, and its only a primary source anyway♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 20:14, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

No worries, I figured you wouldn't agree, but thanks for asking and clearing that up. Anyway, I've posted this over at WP:3O, so hopefully we can get some different perspective here. -- Irn (talk) 15:45, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

That is fine (this isnt a BLP issue) though looking at your edit I dont believe anyone on wikipedia can actually answer the question let alone find a third party source that answers the question. As you say, its unclear, which is why I think what we have is adequate as it makes it clear that we have no clarity on this issue (and not for lack of trying)♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 19:33, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Name

He is certainly known in the Spanish text as Orlando, he isnt known anywhere as Hernandez and this needs removing unless we can source it is the name he is known by♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 23:49, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

He is usually referred to as "Juan Orlando" because he is known by both names (those are both his "first names"), but his last name (appellido) is Hernández. A quick Google search for '"juan orlando hernandez" and "mr hernandez"' reveals 40,000 different sources that refer to him that way. (The same search with "mr orlando" gets but one result for JOH.) -- Irn (talk) 01:10, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I think this is more impressive than google and am willing to concede here though we should still be cautious as he isnt as well known in international circles as he will become♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 01:21, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

55th President

He is not the 55th president and WP:CRYSTAL strictly forbids predicting the future sow e cannot say for sure he will be the 55th president until he is sworn in in January and the infobox must in no way indicate he is the 55th president, he is merely a President-elect, designated to succeed Lobo but not the 55th anything♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 00:57, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Birthday

We have no source for his birthday and I have seen three different dates, 25th, 27th and 28th, all this month. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 11:01, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of sources put his DOB at 28 October 1968 with only a couple of outliers saying anything different. I think his biography at the official Honduran page of the UN and this article from El Heraldo focusing on his birthday should be more than enough. How reliable are the sources you have that say otherwise and why do you think those might be right? -- Irn (talk) 12:42, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I saw the ref had been added to the Spanish version so added it here today. The problem is we had no reliable sources at all and multiple dates; because so many sites copy wikipedia I would have thought a reliable source in this case is one published in Honduras, as the ref we sue most certainly is. I am now satisfied that eysterday was his birthday and we can source this reliably. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 11:16, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

juan Orlando Hernandez Accept Money

There many thing that are not mentioned here, Incluiding the Letter from John Kerry widely saying about the concern about the posibilities of a corruption from this goverment, as well the Law promoted by him, about the secretivity of many business did it by the state. and ignoring the fact the her sister is uncontituonally minister of honduras, ignoring about the death of Bertha Caceres. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.92.33.243 (talk) 14:03, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Feel free to edit. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 17:24, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

@RichardWeiss...I did edit this info a while back and you specifically removed it, citing that the sources were not credible, even though they were completely reputable. There is a letter from the US State Dept (which includes signatures from MANY senators and congressmen, along with John Kerry) stating a lack of confidence in the Honduran political system, namely JOH, and a threat to withhold foreign aid to Honduras. This concern is well documented. This page will always be flawed and missing important public knowledge as long as there are "information goalkeepers" such as yourself that use their personal preferences to deem informational relevance in lieu of the truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.156.186.159 (talk) 11:35, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

cipote malcriado

He isnt bread so to say he was poorly raised is simply poor English to my mind, what is the objection to badly brought up? ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 17:23, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Muzzling of Information

It is widely known in Honduras that JOH has a long reach into several different agencies of that country...including the media. Naturally, any political topic will be fiercely debated between constituents on either side of the aisle, but given that Honduras is consistently on the top 10 (now #6[11]) of most corrupt governments in the world, it can be safely reasoned that the information that meets our ears end eyes is to be suspected. This unflattering rank has CLIMBED since JOH took office, largely due to disregard to the Honduran constitution. Just as in the US, politics is a hotly debated issue in Honduras, to the point that it is suspected that JOH constituents, admirers and employees have taken to sanitizing any public record that paints JOH in a negative light. Some aren't even aware that they perform this service for him, but it takes place nonetheless. The information that is relevant to any given Wikipedia page is subjective, to include alleged acts, suspicions, accusations, etc. It does not need to be ironclad proven in order to be added to the JOH page...only relevant and reputable. This is why legalese like "alleged" and "suspected" is used.

The JOH wiki page has become a hotbed for vandalism which needs to be dealt with, but it has also become a point of contention for his voters...quite literally a game of tag where the last editor (and the most patient and vigilant) can keep this JOH page in the condition which THEY feel is the best for their candidate. The deletion of what is clearly relevant information takes place regularly, along with the addition of negative information of JOH's opponents. I have seen on many occasions where relevant information is added (using just sources and worded legally and properly) only to have it removed because it appears unflattering to certain editors (see GBFan, RichardWeiss, DavidMoreno72). For this reason, any sane person can see that this wiki page is seriously flawed until it is frozen and only given access to unbiased editors. Until then, I strongly recommend that any reader do their own research outside of wiki where JOH voters cannot influence printed information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.169.138.34 (talk) 11:56, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

BLP noticeboard

I have rasied the issue I have with the section I removed at WP:BLPN#Juan Orlando Hernández. - GB fan 11:03, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

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Cartel leadership

The article mentions that he is the leader of the Hernandez Cartel, and links to a CNN article which makes no mention of that fact. I feel that this statement should be keep.

OAS report about the controvertial fraud during elections

OAS report about the fraudulent elections should be added instead a poor and partial article of an Honduran news paper. as well this is an english article why you put information in spanish? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-honduras-election-idUSKBN1EB0XH