Talk:Joseph Goebbels/Archive 1

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Left Wing of National Socialist ideals

Quite often, I have read that Dr.Goebbels was of the 'left wing' of the National Socialists, I think it would be interesting to read how he differed from the right and center thought of the National Socialists...the article still strikes me as POV, and in the past, any edits I have made to try and give more balance have been reverted by policing users. user:ratzinger81

Can you glorify the ravings of different Nazis as "left-wing" and "right-wing" "thought"?! They were more in the nature of different brands of mad fantasies. Goebbels was not in any normal way a "left-winger". He was essentially a cynical Nazi in that whilst he himself did not really believe in the program, he exalted in the wealth and power it brought him and other members of the inner circle, and saw himself as a great manipulator along the lines of Stalinist propagandists, whom he admired. He was not in that sense a "deluded" believer of Nazi idealogy (itself a hugely confused ragbag of sometimes conflicting views and ideas) but rather a pragmatic power seeker. Quite a few other leading Nazis, including Hitler himself, may also have been in this category. MarkThomas 12:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

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Could you give some examples of his propaganda works ? --Taw

One example is a famous speech, at the end of which he screams "Wollt Ihr den totalen Krieg?" (Do you want total war?") and the whole audience is frenzied up sufficiently to scream back "Ja!". --AxelBoldt

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What was the exact sequence of events ? My sources say that Goebbels' wife Magda and dr dr Stumpfegger first poisoned the six children, then he killed his wife and commited suicide by a gun.
Kpjas 18:28 Apr 7, 2003 (UTC)

For Adam and Wik, according to Helmut Heiber's biography, his name on his birth certificate was spelled Joseph Göbbels. Danny 01:16, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The spelling he used was clearly Joseph Goebbels. --Wik 01:19, Nov 10, 2003 (UTC)

Looks that way. Danny 01:23, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Josef is an alternate spelling of Joseph. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Yes, but as I mentioned earlier, his biographer Heiber gives his birth certicate which spells it as Joseph. Manvell and Fraenkel use that spelling too. Note though that Heiber also states that his birth certificate spelled his last name Göbbels. Danny 03:29, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

No reason not to mention all the common spellings... Lirath Q. Pynnor

Agreed, though personally I do not think he ever used Göbbels, at least as an adult. Danny 03:31, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I'm reasonably sure that he never spelled it Goebbles. RickK 03:37, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Josef+G%C3%B6bbels&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-tab-web-t&cop=mss&tab= -- Josef Göbbels is an alternate name. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Maybe you also want to add the alternate names Adolph Hitler and Herman Goering to the appropriate pages then. --Wik 04:46, Nov 11, 2003 (UTC)

Isn't oe just a way of transliterating ö into languages that don't have umlauts? --Delirium 05:02, Nov 11, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, but regardless of that it's Hermann, not Herman. --Wik 05:07, Nov 11, 2003 (UTC)

Oh, I wasn't thinking of that; I was wondering why there's a dispute over Goebbels vs. Göbbels. I was under the impression that a name like Goebbels would just be a way of rendering Göbbels in languages that don't have letters with umlauts, just like Göring is sometimes written Goering in English. But apparently Goebbels actually use the oe version in German as well? --Delirium 00:50, Nov 12, 2003 (UTC)

I always understood that he spelled it that way too. I don't think I have ever seen anyone spelling it Göbbels even if they were perfectly capable of printing umlauts...that just looks weird to me. (I have seen Göring, though.) Adam Bishop 00:59, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Note that redirects already exist for the common misspellings:

1. Joseph Göbbels (redirect page)
2. Joseph Goebbels (redirect page)

I think I now agree with Wik about this page, but I reissue my plea to Wik to use more descriptive edit summaries and try to work more congenially with people.

Daniel Quinlan 00:48, Nov 12, 2003 (UTC)

Okay, here goes. I asked my boss, a leading authority on the era. He pulled off his shelf the newest, most authoritative edition of Goebbels's diaries--in German. Die Tagebüche von Joseph Goebbels. That is how he spelled it. Period. In contrast, the name is Josef Mengele. I saw that on a photocopy of his SS card. Yes, there are alternative spellings, but that does not mean that he used them. My last name is Wool. People constantly spell it Wohl or Wahl and they are wrong. Similarly, Josef and Göbbels are not alternate names. They are wrong (though Göbbels may be how his family once spelled the name). Danny 02:04, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I agree with Danny that Joseph was the original and therefore in a sense the "correct" form of Goebbels' name. It is however the case that the streets in Germany which were named after him during the Nazi era were called Dr Josef Goebbels Strasse, which suggests that for official purposes after 1933 the "more Germanic" form Josef was used. I would not therefore say that Josef is "wrong."

On "oe" versus "ö", it is important to realise that many Germans use these alternatives fairly loosely. They may sometimes write froelich and sometimes write frölich. Some German families spell their names (for example} Koenig and some spell them König. It is a mistake to pedantically change every instance of "oe" to "ö". I have never seen Goebbels's name spelled Göbbels, although that may well have been his legal name. Adam 02:41, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

And how exactly do you know that all those streets were called "Dr Josef Goebbels Strasse"? There are only three Google hits for that term, which may easily be misspellings. --Wik 02:57, Nov 12, 2003 (UTC)

Google gives four hits for "Josef Goebbels Straße" (all from German-language sources) and no hits for ""Joseph Goebbels Straße". Yes they could all be misspellings, but the law of averages suggests this is unlikely. Anyway this extremely minor point has had many more keystrokes expended on it than it deserves, so I will say no more on it. Adam 03:31, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

It does not matter how he spelled his own name, what matters is that other people spell his name "Josef". Lirath Q. Pynnor

Since a google search in german pages leads you to much more "Joseph Goebbels" than "Josef Goebbels" his name probably is "Joseph Goebbels". Göbbels with umlaut is wrong. ö can be interchanged by oe if you don't have an ö (i.e. english computers), but you cannot interchange an oe by an ö, especially not in a name. 82.82.117.83 19:57, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Protected

I protected this page, because two screens' worth of reverting is getting ridiculous. I frankly don't care all that much which version is instilled, but the edit war needs to stop, and something needs to be decided more calmly. --Delirium 04:54, Nov 13, 2003 (UTC)

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On Goebbels the situation appears to be: The name on his birth certificate was Joseph Göbbels. Before 1933 he used the Joseph spelling, but since Josef is a much more common German form, it was widely used by other people. From 1933 the official spelling of his name was Josef, presumably because it was "more Germanic." That is why the streets were called Dr Josef Goebbels Strasse Lirath Q. Pynnor Adam Carr

No. That is bullshit. Here are the facts--The name on his birth certificate was Joseph Göbbels. He was married to Magda as Joseph. For evidence of this (I can't believe I am quoting this as a source, but ...) David Irving in his book, Goebbels: Mastermind of the Third Reich, has a picture of the thank you notes sent out. They are signed "Joseph und Magda Goebbels." That was in 1931. Later, after Hitler came to power, after Germany invaded Poland, etc. in 1940, Goebbels published his memoirs, entitled Vom Kaiserhof zur Reichskanzlei. (These were translated into English by Kurt Fiedler in 1979 as My Part in Germany's Fight.) In the preface, after dedicating the book to the Party and the S.A., Goebbels signed his name. His signature is reproduced there. In one more minute you will have a scan of the signature. Notice how he spells Joseph in 1940. Unless he misspelled his own name, that would be the correct spelling of his name, and the name he used as Reichsminister. Danny 21:51, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

No, its not bullshit -- but thank you for your constructive criticism; however, CBS notes that Josef is an alternate name: [1] Lirath Q. Pynnor

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What should be mentioned is that Goebbels was a virulent anti-semitic which was not the case with some other high ranking Nazis like Albert Speer and even Heinrich Himmler. According to Felix Kersten who was the personal masseur of Heinrich Himmler, Himmler told him that it was Goebbels who came with the idea of exterminating the Jews. Source: German book that has been translated in English Heinz Hoehne 'Der Orden unter dem Totenkopf' The book mentions as original source the diaries of Felix Kersten. This is the only source I could find so I don't think it is a fact.

Andries 24 Jan 2004

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"..., some contend that he shot himself and his wife afterwards:.."

I'm not a native English speaker so I might be misreading this. But it does seem difficult to shot yourself and then your wife afterwards. Now, I have to admit to not having tried it myself, so I can't really back it up ;)

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When I searched theweb for pictures of Magda Göbbels children, I fond this very page, and http://www.limbicnutrition.com/blog/archives/019175.html And the book itself at www.fpp.co.uk/books/Goebbels/Goebbels.pdf Please, do not read it. But if you do, don't beleave it. Just use it for finding of facts. It can sometimes be helpful in that respect. / danparsjo@msn.com

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NOTICE: There has been vandalism on this page just below the "Suicide" section. A box is featured reading "he is also categorically an idiot." I tried to remove it, but it's no where in the "Edit This Page" window. Just wanted to point this out to someone who can fix it. --Heavy1974, 10-5-2006

The "Dr."

Was the doctorate an honorary title? If not, what field was Goebbels educated in? - knoodelhed 16:04, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

not a mere honorary title. He has studied philosophy. That is about all I know. Andries 17:40, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Magda Goebbels was not the first lady. Goerings wife was. Source. Werner Maser's Hermann Goering: Hitlers januskoepfiger Paladin Berlin 2000 Andries 18:39, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Goebbels had a PhD in Drama, entitling him to be called Dr.. DJ Clayworth 18:35, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

His thesis, on the plays of Wilhelm von Schütz, was submitted to the University of Heidelberg in November 1921. Ironically, his supervisor, Max Baron von Waldberg, was Jewish.

Goebbels achieved a PhD from Heidelburg in 1921 at the age of twenty-four. He had also studied at the Universities of Bonn, Frieburg, Wuerzburg, Köln, Frankfurt, München and Berlin.Anthony.bradbury 20:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

"External link" hidden for now

The "External link" section is hidden for now, 'coz the only link, "http://wikisource.org/wiki/Sportpalast_Speech" is blank. -- PFHLai 04:17, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

"Joining the Nazi Party in 1924 (his later statement to have joined the party in 1922 belongs to his early lies)"

I am not in any way tring to defend the guy, but this seems to be very un-NPOV

german article page is far more comprehensive

the german page for this article seems to have a very comprehensive amount of information, is there anyone out there available to translate and pull some of this data for the english version?

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Sorry I do not think he was a Chancellor because if Bush (or any other President) would make a testament: if i die my son/daughter/wife or whatever becomes the next President, do you think it would be valid?

The United States is thankfully not (currently) a fascist dictatorship. You'd probably want to compare with something like North Korea.--Fangz 09:59, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Of course the USA is far away from that, my fault, i hope you are not offended by my unclarity. i just wanted to say that probably hitler had not the formal right (by law) to chose a successor (with/by his last will). Materially (word?sp?) of course he could make what he wanted. plus in opposition to Dönitz goebbels didnt want that position however that doesnt matter because Dönitz was also choosen by hitlers last will and therefore were either both of them illegal or legal. I wonder if they were from the legal side (formel) the successor or only by the material side (by fact/deeds) and if they where only by deeds (materially), is it really worth to mention such war-criminals (especially goebbels)?

Hitler unarguably had, by the law in the Third Reich at the time, the right to nominate his successor because at that time and in that place the law was by definition exactly whatever Hitler said it was. Anthony.bradbury 20:57, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

PoV rant

We all know JG was a lying, club-footed syncophant and frustrated novelist who personally assisted in the promotion of a genocidal regime and then at best stood by while his distraught wife murdered their kids rather than let them fall prey to the tender mercies of the Red Army. However, this is an encyclopedia, and his character must be conveyed in a NPoV manner. The new user who tacked on the rambling section (pasted below) likely meant well, and there is helpful information here which I will integrate into the article when time allows. Wyss 12:20, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Mini Biography & Timeline of Joseph Goebbels

(copyright violation from http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/goebbels.html removed by Melchoir 21:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC))

Dull diaries

I've read Goebbel's diaries, and they're interesting but dull. His love for his children is clear, but the diaries give no reason or observation that might excuse the family's bunker horror. Is there an account that properly addresses the event?--shtove 03:58, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

What he allowed to happen to his kids rather much speaks for itself, deeds speak louder than and so forth. Wyss 22:34, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Does it speak for itself? It seems like something members of a religious cult would do - removing themselves from an irredeemable world. Once it became clear that Hitler, the messiah, had failed in his mission, then everything had to go - but go where, since they had no concept of God?--shtove 15:23, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

At the time of the family-suicide, the allied forces were approaching very fast. Hitler already recognized that he was not going to win the war, and so did Goebbels. Goebbels was very capable of adding 2 and 2, he knew that if he wouldn't commit suicide, he would surely be imprisoned. Committing suicide might sounds favourable when the only other option at hand is being captured by enemy forces. Both moral-ethic (Like Japanese soldiers, to die rather than to fall into enemy hands) and perhaps also physical (having to live years and prison, before getting the death punishment). I'm just guessing that he loved his wife and children so much, that for the reasons stated above, he didn't want them to fall into the hands of the Allies. -- SoothingR^(pour) 16:03, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

But wasn't it the wife's choice as well? I suspect it was more than morals or ethics that lay behind the choice - some greater vision.--shtove 21:35, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Sure that it was his wife's choice as well, but that doesn't change anything about the reasons for the massacre -- SoothingR^(pour) 15:20, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

The reasons you give are understandable for JG himself, but not for his wife and not when it came to their children. It could be said that JG was an almighty ego and therefore if HE was to go everything had to go with him, family and all; but his wife was well aware of his infidelities, and I don't think she would have sacrificed for him - not to that extent. It has to be something more than fear of dishonour or punishment. And my original question: Is there an account that properly addresses the event? And why is the font so small?--shtove 00:15, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Why

Strong identification with national socialism could and did have some similarites to cultish or religious behaviour among some. The evidence indicates Magda took the stronger role in killing her kids, apparently convincing herself to some degree they would be re-incarnated. Goebbels seems to have lost his grip and was half-mad during his day as chancellor of Germany. Finally, there were very real concerns the little girls would be mistreated- raped and so on. Thousands their age were, in fact. Most of the female occupants of the bunker were too. Wyss 00:27, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Know of any account that addresses the particular point?--shtove 17:27, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

The Soviets spread Hitler's remains on the Elbe???

Did I miss the day in history class when they taught this, or did they just recently figure this out:

The bodies of the Goebbels family, along with those of Hitler and Eva Braun were secretly buried and reburied together by the Soviets, ultimately in the courtyard of KGB headquarters in Magdeburg, Germany. In April 1970 all the remains were reburned and scattered in the Elbe river.

This was covered extensively in a BBC documentary around five or more years ago; it arose from the release of Stasi files in East Germany and KGB records. I seem to recall they finally located the likely burial place of Goebbels to be something like a car park behind a garage somewhere in East Germany. Apparently the Soviets did it to try to permanently erase any chance of a Hitler memorial gathering place, etc. Not sure if there's anything citeable about it, maybe on Google. There are articles like this on the web about it. MarkThomas 20:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any thoughts on this?

[2], [3], and possibly also [4] may be of interest TerraGreen 16:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

- I was thinking the exact same thing (and I'm glad I'm not the only one who did). I'm tempted to think we should delete this bit since it does not cite its sources, and it's indeed the first time I have seen anyone make such a claim, as opposed to the widely accepted view that Hitler- and Eva Braun's bodies were burnt immediately after they committed suicide.

No balls

About to reinstate an earier edit which was reverted on the grounds that "IMO WW2 Allied propaganda doesn't qualify as "pop" culture". I contend that it does qualify, because the song caught on considerably beyond the initial usage, see Hitler has only got one ball#Origin of the song for details (paragraph beginning "the song has frequently been seen and heard"). TerraGreen 23:36, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Catholic

I am reverting the categorisation of Roman Catholic. While it is true he was born into a Catholic family, I believe we need evidence that he continued to practice later in life before that category can be legitimately applied. If anyone can supply this evidence I'll be happy to put it back. DJ Clayworth 18:37, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I have heard rumors for decades that Goebbels was at least part jewish. Does anyone know anything credible about this?

I've heard of this rumour and suspect it's only a conflation with his wife Magda's personal history. Her mother Auguste may have married Jewish hotel and restaurant worker Max Friedländer (who later died at the Buchenwald concentration camp), moving with him to Brussels where they all lived until the outbreak of World War I when Germans were forced to leave and the family spent time in a refugee camp in East Prussia. In effect Friedländer was Magda's stepfather and she was known as Magda Friedländer until she legally changed her name to Magda Rietschel (her presumed biological father's name) shortly before she married Max Quandt, her first husband, in 1921 since Jewish names were a social liability in Germany during the early part of the 20th century. Wyss 21:57, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

body photo

The photo of his body as discovered by the Soviets was removed apparently without any debate on this page. Maybe there should be debate over whether it should be put back? rvinall 08:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Name spelling

I removed the mention of the umlauted spelling Göbbels from the page. In all the accounts I've read about Nazi Germany and WWII, I've never seen this spelling ever, even in texts which describe Goebbels and Hermann Göring in the same paragraph. Further, the German article (presumably not shy of using umlauts) has no instances of "Göbbels". The only hits I could find for Göbbels was a bunch of other people with the same name (I don't blame them: I if had that last name I'd spell it differently than Goebbels too) so I think we needn't mention it. --Saforrest 06:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Club foot

Goebbels has been widely reported, both during the Nazi era and afterwards, as having a club foot. This is not so. At the age of seven he suffered from osteomyelitis - an infection of the bone marrow - of the left femur. Surgery was only partly successful, and he was left with a left leg rather shorter and slightly weaker than the right. This produced an undisguisable limp.

See 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' by William Shirer, a contemporary witness.

I have not yet changed the article, but will do so in a few days unless I reap a storm of protest. Anthony.bradbury 21:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

If you are knowledgable about his club foot or lack thereof, please edit the following sentence in the article so it makes sense. It seems garbled at present: "He was, and is widely thought to have had a club foot, and this was a common topic of Allied propaganda during the Second World War."Edison 21:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I know nothing about the topic, but currently the article declares Goebbels to have had a club foot, and mere words later says this is not the case. I'd rather not make a call myself, as I'm not familiar with Goebbels, but right now it's just absurd. If nothing's been improved within a few days, I'll try to clean things up while leaving the uncertainty, but I hope that won't be necessary. --- BHN

Film

As far as I can see, there isn't any reference to the films he made. Surely these were some of the most important propaganda works of the 3rd Reich?

Don't know who added the above comment, but checked IMDB.com and they say he influenced lots of the propaganda films and appeared in several, but he seems to have been the moving force behind their most expensive Nazi era film, Kolberg, and IMDB says he was the uncredited Executive Producer and a writer, so I added that info. Interestingly, he actually wasted scarce resources and pulled troops off the battlefield to film the battle scene of the Napoleanic era film, probably helping thereby to shorten the war, since there were few theaters left to show it when it was released around January 1945, so it did not produce the great outpouring of patriotic feeling he hoped for.Edison 22:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Argumentum ad nauseum, 'Big Lie,' etc...

'The Goebbels technique, also known as argumentum ad nauseam, is the name given to a policy of repeating a point until it is taken to be the truth (see Big Lie). For example, when Goebbels took ownership of the Der Angriff (The Assault) newspaper, he attacked Berlin Police President Bernhard Weiss, calling him "Isidor" Weiss. To German ears, Isidor at the time was a name with strong Jewish connotations. Eventually the public believed Isidor was Weiss' real given name and he became a figure of ridicule.[citation needed]'

No offense, but how can this article accuse Goebbels of inventing the 'Big Lie' technique, back itself up with 'evidence' that lacks citation, and to top it all off reference another Wikipedia article (The Big Lie) which basically dismisses the attribution of the Big Lie technique to Goebbels as a dirty rumor? Is this not in itself a 'Big Lie'? o.0; --GrimgerdeNrVIII 19:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

What languages did he speak?

Hello,

I have been asking this on the talk page of many biographies on Wikipedia : what languages did Joseph Goebbels speak? A propaganda minister could benefit from the knowledge of another language, but on the other hand there wasn't really an international language back then. I remember seeing footage of him at a conference, where he was interviewed by a British reporter and needed a translator (they were talking about peaceful coexistence or something). Evilbu 13:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

He had some understanding of English, but I am not sure to what level of competence. White Guard 05:44, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Berhard Weiss

The point about Dr. Berhard Weiss is wrong; the public did not come to believe his real name to be Isidor, and thus a figure of ridicule. He made himself such a figure by his overreactions to Goebbels' provocations. Everytime the name 'Isidor' was used in Der Angriff Dr Weiss took Goebbels to court, and was invariably awarded damages and costs. On one occasion the paper's cartoonist, Moljnir, put Weiss' face on the drawing of a donkey, naming his creation as 'Isidor'. Once again Goebbels was taken to court, and once again was found liable. The following day the headline appeared in Der Angriff-"Judge Agrees-Isidor does Look Like a Donkey!"

The great and obvious gap in this whole article is that it says nothing about Goebbels' time as Gauleiter of Berlin-a post he occupied from November 1926 until his death-which saw some remarkable events in the history of National Socialism, including the SA revolt of 1931 and the great street battles with the Communists. White Guard 05:31, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Like most articles about leading Nazis at Wikipedia (and probably many others as well), this article is seriously deficient. It gives far too much space to the last days of his life and to personal gossip (in other words to the easy, newsworthy and sensational parts) and far too little attention to the bulk of his political career (much harder to research and write). I might have a go at it when I get time. Adam 06:38, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Biography

Can anyone recommend a biography other than Irving's? I am reluctant to put money in Irving's pocket, and he can no longer be cited as a reliable source, but a look at Amazon's listings suggests that his is still the best biography to be had. Adam 13:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

You might try Helmut Heiber's biography. Can you read German? You will find the best work in this language. Irving's biography isn't bad, just over-rated. It will probably not tell you anything about Goebbels that you do not already know. White Guard 00:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I've read so much German history recently I almost feel as though ich der Deutsch spachen kann (?), but alas no. The point of having a good biography is so that I have a citation source for when I rewrite this rather poor article. I can't use Irving for that, even if I thought his book was trustworthy. Adam 00:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

To be honest Iriving is a superb scholar when it comes to gathering documents and original material; it is the interpretation that he puts on these sources that is often at odds with reality. What you can do is take his book and strip it down, a little bit like a car mechanic, if you like, and then build it up again, modified by your own interpretation. You can then, in effect, by-pass Irving altogether, using his sources, cross-checking where you can. You obviously cannot do this with archive documents (original research etc. etc.), but there is also a lot of secondary material. Might I suggest you refer to Goebbels himself? His diaries, treated with due caution, provide some very good insights. White Guard 01:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that were he not an ideologue Irving could have been an excellent historian. The problem is that in the wake of the Lipstadt affair and the exposure of the falsified figures in the Dresden book, all his work must be regarded as unreliable. Geobbels Diaries: I understood the English edition of the complete diaries was not yet available. Adam 01:19, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

No; but there is still a lot already in translation. The early diaries-those dealing with the period just before he became Gauleiter of Berlin-are by far the most revealing, for the simple reason they were never intended for publication. White Guard 01:24, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Goebbels & modern propaganda techniques

There is a statement in the article which reads: He is credited by historians with developing the techniques of modern communications and propaganda. I find this to be very interesting; could the author of the statement incorporate specific examples, as well as sources for this statement, into the article? 199.29.6.2 16:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The Lonesome Guest

What is the story in The Lonesome Guest?

After earning a Ph.D. in Literature and Philosophy from the University of Heidelberg in 1921
he worked as a journalist and tried for several years to become a published author.
His work included an autobiographical novel called Michael which no publisher would take at the time,
and two plays written in verse - The Wanderer, about Jesus Christ, and The Lonesome Guest - which no producer would stage.

Warning

I am going to write a new Goebbels article to replace this very poor one as soon as I find a reputable biography (ie, not David Irving) to work from. I suggest people not waste their time with minor fixes of this article as these will be lost when I replace it. Adam 08:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Michigan relations

From the article: Today there are surviving descendants in Ravenna Michigan. Just whose descendants exactly? Didn't all his children die in the Führerbunker? Edeans 20:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism removed

I just removed the "He also banged alot of ass all night long till the break of dawn" some idiot had added at the end of Early Life section. Some people are worse than children. Kontorotsui 00:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Diaries

According to the latest version of this article David Irving is said to have claimed he had been the first to find Goebbels diaries in the Moscow archives. Although I do not possess a "real" copy of the book, but rather the online version I downloaded from Mr.Irving's website, according to what I can read, Irving does not claim to have been the first to find the diaries and thanks Dr. Elke for having done so.He claims to have been the first to see the microfilm, that's all. This passage can be found on page 5/939 of the .PDF version of the book which I presume can be downloaded from Irving's website. So, which one is correct? Is perhaps the version I own too recent? Did Mr.Irving 'delete' this sordid afair from the book he made available for free online? Thank you very much for your cooperation.Ishikawa Minoru 00:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

'The Big Lie,' Part II

Listen, unless someone has irrefutable proof (a statement, a diary entry, a speech, etc.) that Goebbels created the 'Big Lie,' then I'm going to continue deleting it. Wikipedia's own article regarding the Big Lie contradicts the Joseph Goebbels article's attribution of the technique to Goebbels and, more importantly, CITES ITSELF. Also, simply because someone was mentioned in one of Goebbels' diary entries doesn't make them relevant enough to Goebbels to merit an inclusion in this article's 'see also' section. --Grimgerde 18:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm quite surprised (as this is so often attributed to Goebbels), but Encyclopaedia Brittancia, 15th Edition (1974) seems to support your position. It says, "Contrary to common belief, Goebbels did not at that time falsify the facts of the situation. On the contrary, the main thrust of his propaganda... was to continually raise hopes by citing historical parallels and making other comparisons, by conjuring up allegedly immutable laws of history, or even ... by refering to some secret miracle weapons". Is this just an urban legend? A self-referential "Big Lie"? How interesting. I will continue to research this. --Bill Huston ^(talk) 19:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Self-referential 'Big Lie' indeed! Perhaps the Goebbels article should reflect this in conformity with Wikipedia's Big Lie article? --Grimgerde 20:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

done! --Bill Huston ^(talk) 03:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

• Which Big Lie was that? That they had a prayer of winning a war on two fronts? Wahkeenah 03:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Wahkeenah, this might make more sense if you read higher up on this page to the prior discussion. Also, look at the edit history to see what Grimgerde recently deleted. Web search on "Goebbles big lie" and see what comes up. Basically it's this: A quote is often attributed to Goebbels, something like "tell a lie often enough and loud enough and people will accept it as truth". It is beginning to look to me like this is itself a "big lie", as there is now a question in my mind whether Goebbels said this at all. Grimgerde raised question, and my Brittanica continues to cast doubt. If anyone knows an original source for this, please post it. --Bill Huston ^(talk) 03:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

deletion of link to Herschel Grynszpan article

So User:Grimgerde, why was this deleted? Article appears to have much info about Goebbles. I reverted. --Bill Huston ^(talk) 19:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps I was too hasty in this regard. The article implied that Grynszpan's relevance to Goebbels was limited solely to a mere mentioning of him in one of Goebbels' diary entries. After reading Grynszpan's article myself, I still do not see him relevant enough to Goebbels meriting a link in the 'see also' section. However, I can see how it can be argued otherwise and so I'll leave it be. --Grimgerde 20:10, 13 December 2006 (UTC)