Talk:Jonson

Requested move 30 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jonson (disambiguation) has concluded as delete. Taking comments in both discussions into account, there's a clear consensus to move the name page to the base name. (closed by non-admin page mover) NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 01:36, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

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Jonson (name) → Jonson – WP:PTOPIC and need histmerge. Jax 0677 (talk) 21:55, 30 November 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 00:51, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

• The unspoken part here is there's a question whether Ben Jonson is still the primary topic here as was discussed in 2004, or should it be the surname. I'm not sure from mass views for Jonson - he does still stand out quite a bit. The Google Books Ngrams also correlate quite a bit. WikiNav for Jonson doesn't get enough traffic to render. I suppose we should also compare with what happens at Johnson? --Joy (talk) 16:26, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

  There's also weirdness in the fact that there's a few given name uses at Jonson (disambiguation) separately. This is a weird case of WP:NAMELIST - using "(name)" as the disambiguation marker for the surnames, but not given names. Mass views for that in turn shows a young footballer attracting a bit of attention recently, but it's still way lower than Ben Jonson - though that might be because of this weird contraption of a navigation we have going on here. --Joy (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

  One possibility is that Ben Jonson is not important enough to be a primary topic (PT) for just "Jonson" but is important enough to stop anything else being a PT, i.e. that "Jonson" has no PT. In that case, Jonson (disambiguation) should be moved to the base name Jonson. Certes (talk) 17:18, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

  It's hard to see a case for keeping separate pages Jonson (disambiguation) and Jonson (name), as both provide a disambiguation function and both are mainly a list of names. We should probably merge them into either one dab (my preference) or a name list. Whether to do this is orthogonal to whether Ben is the primary topic. Certes (talk) 17:23, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

  Yeah, a big squash of both lists into one list seems most prudent at this point, and then listing Ben at the top per MOS:DABCOMMON. There is no etymological information about the surname here, it seems like a hodgepodge, so it might as well get reduced back to a disambiguation list. --Joy (talk) 20:38, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

  • Reply - If Jonson Gallery is listed in the article, it should be a disambiguation page. In any event, Jonson should NOT be a redirect. --Jax 0677 (talk) 22:52, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

    Well, is it reasonable to expect for anyone to refer to that gallery as simply "Jonson"? Agreed about the redirect, that's a bad remnant of moves. --Joy (talk) 08:28, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

    I'm not familiar with that gallery, but others such as the Tate are commonly referred to without the suffix. Certes (talk) 12:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: The consensus should be more clearer. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 00:51, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Jonson as a name page, not a disambiguation page. There is just not enough to disambiguate. The Gallery is named for a surnamed Jonson, and is probably rarely called "Jonson" by itself, so it can be noted in a see also section. BD2412 T 00:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposals

I propose voting for the best option.

Merge Jonson (name) and Jonson (disambiguation) into Jonson

1. Y Support merging all pages into one article. --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:27, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

   Leaving aside the merging issue in the RM, this option is the same as moving Jonson (disambiguation) into Jonson for no primary topic. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 01:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Move Jonson (name) into Jonson

Move Jonson (disambiguation) into Jonson

Merge Jonson (disambiguation) into Jonson (name)

Merge Jonson (name) into Jonson (disambiguation)

Retarget Jonson to Ben Jonson

--Jax 0677 (talk) 16:31, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Comment: I haven't seen enough discussion about if Ben Jonson should be the primary topic here before I relisted this RM. If Ben Jonson remains primary while Jonson shouldn't be a redirect, it will be moved there instead. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 05:13, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jax 0677: Sorry, but please may refer to WP:NOTVOTE. I'm not asking for such a voting to build a rough consensus. NmWTfs85lXusaybq (talk) 16:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.