Talk:John M. Ford

Will Shetterly as a source on Ford

Please note that, per WP:SPS, "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications". There had been some dispute about whether websnark met this criterion, but there should be home about Shetterly: in addition to all of his other qualifications, he published on John M. Ford in the reliable, print publication Locus (#550; November 2006), when it was under the editorship of Charles N. Brown. I do not have access to the piece published in Locus, which is why I used the self-published one, but this is literally exactly the case that the SPS policy is meant to include as RS. Removal of the source or of claims in the articledocumenteded in this source are therefore contrary to policy. Newimpartial (talk) 21:00, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Shetterly aside for the moment, would you care to state why you included all of the other material that is sourced to self-published sources in your mass reverts? Also, I'd like to see a community opinion on this assertion you make about Shetterly - there are 14 citation in the reference section and not one mention of Shetterly in it. SteamboatPhilly (talk) 21:38, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

There was no Shetterly in the Reference list only because you removed it, SteamboatPhilly. I have restored the stable version content and the Shetterly source, which you should not per policy have removed. Newimpartial (talk) 21:43, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

We'll get back to that. Why did you re-add the other self-published sources without any discussion, knowing full well they don't belong in an encyclopedia? SteamboatPhilly (talk) 21:45, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

I added back exactly one self-published source, namely Shetterly. I also restored content that is in the stable version, which is now sourced to Shetterly and to Sleight (not a self-published source). Newimpartial (talk)

Also please note that, in spite of your previous comment, Shetterly is actually cited in the other references as well. Newimpartial (talk) 21:53, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

The Shetterly source appears to be valid for the information it is citing. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 22:33, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm talking about using a web forum [1] as a source for justification of stating that Ford was "a contributor to several online discussions". If a reliable secondary reported this, then fine, I would have no problem with it. But this is literally something the creator of the material wrote up on their own, with no source, because someone going by the handle of "John M. Ford" posted somewhere on a web forum. That's not a reliable source. SteamboatPhilly (talk) 12:44, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Will Shetterly and John M. Ford knew each other for years, both active in Minneapolis SF, so Will had every opportunity to confirm that "handle" if there had been any doubt. (Note that Shetterly and his wife edited the books featuring most of the Ford short-stories and poems listed in this very article.) As the forum owners are also SF book publishers and knew Ford personally as did other forum participants (SF writers and fans; his own partner Elise Matthesen posted his death notice there), the suggestion of that "handle" being a long-term impersonation has minimal, roughly zero, plausibility. – _•Raven  ^.talk 18:04, 28 May 2019 (UTC)