Talk:John Battendieri

Introduction Requests

A picture would be nice. How about biography? But he's probably still a working man. (WP:BLP) .Kristinwt (talk) 22:50, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Justification for article

I believe an article on this person is noteworthy because I think he may have been a forerunner of the organics movement. I was looking at Santa Cruz Organics web site and they had a small mention of him as part of their history. How do you describe a drop of water that is headwater to a river? Organics are on our grocery shelves, but who started it? Why did they start it? How did it get to where it is today? This article starts to answer that question. Maybe there will be other names. I found one.

LA Times is a noteable paper. There are other outside references given. This article may grow, and others like it, when we start to investigate, "Who were the players?" "Where did they work?" Granted, Organics Organic movement started because someone had something to sell and others bought it. You cannot buy without sellers and sellers won't continue without buyers. Even so, John B. thought differently and might just have started a movement. I don't know. Let's find out. Wiki is about collaboration. Maybe someone who does know will chime in.

Of course this is not a subject of interest to people who eat at MickyDees every day. This is about history. History of healthy foods. The history of healthy foods in the 1970's. Speedy deletion should be removed.--Kristinwt (talk) 20:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

"I believe the article satisfies Speedy Delete A7 by stating that Battendieri founded a few companies. If these companies were notable, Battendieri might stand a better chance at meeting notability guidelines. Article's existing sources either don't mention Battendieri or use him as a minor source. Neither he nor his work are the subject of any current citations.|month = November|day = 11|year = 2008|time = 02:44|timestamp = 20081111024450}}" X  S  G 

Not many people will quote him since the subject's so new. Thanks for the heads up. --Kristinwt (talk) 23:42, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

AfD

I'm very close to submitting this as reason for AfD:

No reliable sources found to verify notability. I believe the article satisfies Speedy Delete A7 by stating that Battendieri founded a few companies. These companies don't appear to be notable in and of themselves, and the founder of a notable company isn't necessarily notable in and of himself. Article's existing sources either don't mention Battendieri or use him as a minor source, excepting an article in which he was interviewed about how a law impacts his business, which was added following a declined Proposed Deletion (with the explanation that he is a "Pioneer in the U.S. Organics movement"). He is not the direct subject of any citations in the article, and any references to him in a search of media sources are about his organizations and not him, per se.

I really don't think Battendieri is notable enough for his own Wikipedia article. I'll give it a few more days to see what else you and other editors can come up with before I submit for AfD. —  X  S  G  05:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

You fixed it! It looks better. It's still a kludge as far as copy, but I don't want to do it all, especially if, like you say it's going to get deleted. He's not Britney Spears for notoriety, but I don't know anyone else. I never heard of this guy before a couple days ago. Only 1 clue from a website and I thought I needed to know about this person. Other refs are just dates or placeholders. I asked the company for a photo and they sent one. Santa Cruz Sentinel has an article from 1994. Will post later. Would be nice to find something dated earlier. Kristinwt (talk) 01:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Research

Well, I would counter that sources are reliable. They're all third party, just not enough of them. But, what's "enough?" I just read WP--Scrabble and that doesn't sound good. Based on that, you're right, it's hard to find stuff promoting himself only as the one the only. But, I hate to let the article go just because we have not done enough research on the subject. By taking time and asking questions I find more information. Thanks go to Sarah Quelland of the SC Sentinel and Sandy Lydon, Historian Emeritus of Cabrillo College, Aptos, CA. But, we would need to find older stuff, like maybe an advertisement dated from the 1970's with certain product listed. Also, seems like I came across a phrase like the Organic Foods Inc. was first a consortium or coop or something before it became a company then merged or got sold. There may be some history there. Also, Harmony Snack foods was around that time. They got bought out by Golden Streams in 2004. GS claims to have been in existence for 20 years. Who were those players? The 1994 Sentinel article is about Battendieri reiterating his early 1970's start, organic produce and charitable work through his company. Where's the critical mass?

So, if it has to be enough information "like falling off a log" then save me a copy so when the index scrolls off the screen I can find them 10 years from now. Right now it's not "falling off a log. " Perhaps it's "standing on a log," or maybe "climbing up on the log" to see notoriety.Kristinwt (talk) 18:07, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Quantity isn't nearly as important as quality. So far, there are no articles used as references which are specifically about Battendieri. A single biographical article in a book from a reputable publisher, journal, or newspaper is enough to establish notability. This article is the only reason I didn't immediately send this for AfD after the PROD was deleted. I don't think it's enough to establish notability on its own, but if you can find a different newspaper discussing Battendieri's importance to Organics, you've got it in the bag. If we can't find anything that establishes his importance in a few days, I'll send the article to AfD and let other folks discuss whether the sources are enough to establish notability.

Also, be careful to differentiate between articles about Battendieri from articles about his organizations. Articles about his organizations don't do anything to establish his notability, just the organization's notability. —  X  S  G  07:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Work this article in... —  X  S  G  07:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• I did. It's in the photo caption. This one I didn't hardly think fit because, as you say, it's about his company, not so much him and I already have him placed at BHOS via another article.Kristinwt (talk) 05:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

• And after you work this one in as well, you've sufficiently established notability to my hard-ass satisfaction level. —  X  S  G  07:44, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Where the heck did you find that? Frozen foods? Who would have thought! Thanks. Kristinwt (talk) 05:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

And yes. he did start the Cancer benefit group with his friends. That ref says it.Kristinwt (talk) 05:45, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

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