Talk:John Adams High School (Queens)

Request for comment

• Talk:John Adams High School (Jamaica/Ozone Park, NY) A dispute about content in a school article. A user trims down school articles routinely to keep out what he calls "cruft"; another user wants to include details about Clubs and Facilities in the school because he has stated that the school did not have sufficient information before. 03:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Note: existing comments prior to the listing at RFC have been reformatted and added into this RFC by User:Jerry
Statements by editors previously involved in dispute

• The name is Salman, and I'm currently revising and updating this article. I feel that there should be a lot more information for John Adams High School because inside, it really is a good school. I will be adding Academic information as well as listing the Clubs and Events for the school. My friend will be helping me with this as well, so if anyone else wants to contribute, state that you will on this Discussion page. Also, if you are going to edit the page, *please* type properly with proper spelling and grammar. Thanks! Xbxg32000 01:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Salman
  • 04/03/07 - Added *a lot* of information, including the Athletic parts of the school, the Football and Baseball Fields, the Academics and improvements, an image of the school, a proper school information box, and much more! Xbxg32000 02:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Salman
• The version of the article as I had edited it can be viewed in my user space at: User:Jerry/JohnAdams. Please have a look at it. I routinely trim down school articles because I am a major proponent of the "all schools are notable" doctrine, and defend against their deletion. One thing that helps keep the articles here in my opinion, is if they do not contain "cruft". While I appreciate your enthusiasm for the article, and note your careful attention to spelling, and the like, I would ask you to please not add a whole lot of information not commonly in encyclopedia articles on schools, especially detailed current events on its clubs and athletic teams, names of students who are not otherwise notable (eg. So-and-so is the freshman class president... etc.) Thanks, Jerry 03:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Jerry, what is the "All Schools are Notable" doctrine? Because the information on John Adams is very minimal, and that's why we need more information. Did you take a look at the article on Stuyvesant High School? Their page is nearly four times as long as this, and it has 0 cleanup. Please don't cleanup articles that have good information on them. Xbxg32000 03:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Salman

Many people nominate school articles for deletion at WP:AfD. They claim that schools have little notability outside of the immediate communities in which they are located. I am in the other camp; I defend all school articles against deletion using the statement that "all schools are notable'. fortunately there are enough people who agree with this position that school articles nor mally do not get deleted, and when they do, they normally get undeleted through the DELREV process. As I said, I do routinely go through school articles and trim them down using the same criteria. Most articles have about the same look, tone, and size when I am done with them. I have not yet looked over the school you listed above. Jerry 03:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so while you say that people say that certain schools have little notability outside of the immediate communities, no one has said that about John Adams and is yet to. Your reasoning is that you're defending an article from deletion, when it isn't even endangered on being deleted. I take what you're doing as vandalism, as you're not improving an article, but making it worse and using an excuse of "saving it". Xbxg32000 03:52, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Salman

Also, take a look at this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams_High_School_%28South_Bend%2C_Indiana%29

That school is not even largely notable, yet we have a whole table of years and coaches for athletics? Why aren't you "trimming" that article? Your reasoning is illogical. Xbxg32000 03:56, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Salman.

I will wait until we have a bit more community input before I reply to your questions/comments. I would ask you to assume good faith, however, and refrain from making accusations while my interests are in making the encyclopedia and indeed this article better, and certainly not vandalism. Please make an effort to be civil. Thanks, Jerry 04:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• You stated that I considered it a "great school". I never stated that, and the main reason here is not that it's a "great school". It requires information, the information before was just copied and pasted from some review site, it was bland and not useful at all. Xbxg32000 04:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Salman
  • My bad, you said "it really is a good school", which means the same as "it is a great school" to me. I did not mean to mischaracterize your statement. I will correct the RFC statement.Jerry 04:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
    • And where was this stated? Was it stated on the article itself or the discussion page? Do opinions belong in the article or the discussion page? I believe my opinion was in the proper place, in the discussion page, not the article. Once again, I added the information because the article was extremely information lacking, not because I feel that the school is great and deserves praise and fame. Xbxg32000 04:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Salman
      • You're off topic... and please comment in this section down here, not up there where the simple statement of the dispute belongs. Also you posted a comment above my signature last time, please don't do that as it can look like I said it, so it can be confusing for others reading this. Jerry 04:24, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
        • Okay, I really don't see how what I said is Off-Topic. Yes, I did write personal information originally regarding leaders of certain clubs, etc. But after reading what you had to say about adding too much personal information, I deleted that information. Other than that info that was previously there, there isn't anything else here that needs to be "trimmed" in my opinion. Xbxg32000 04:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Salman
• About the bottom half of the page. I didn't write the bottom half of the page where it restates some of the things that I added at the top part, so that's why the article appears to contradict itself. Xbxg32000 00:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)Salman

Comments by others

• Jerry, I think that you are trimming the article for no reason. No one even threatened to delete the article, and I saw the article beforehand and it had very little information, and what Salman added was very useful and could be very useful for a freshman looking to attend the school. Saubirahh 18:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)Saubirahh

(Note: Saubirahh's only contributions to the English Wikipedia are to this talk page, both after the RFC was created.)

While I appreciate you taking the time to provide a comment with your opinion, I would urge you to read over some wikipedia policies to make an informed decision as to what content is appropriate to a wikipedia article.

- What wikipedia is not

- An essay about why we don't include things just because we like them

- An enormous list of schools nominated for deletion recently

Jerry 21:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

John Adams in the Media

Linda C. (McNair) McJunckins, Author - "From Princess to Prisoner" ISBN-10:1600342884/ISBN-13:9781600342882 Xulon Press. Her book is about her daughter who went off to a Christian college and trapped into joining a religious cult. McJunckins is a Columnist/Writer for "El Mensajero" newspaper in Hazleton, PA, and "The Melanian" newspaper in Scranton, PA. She was a student at John Adams from 1962-1965.

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