Talk:Johannesteijsmannia lanceolata

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 17:29, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that chica is only collected during kenduri rituals?

• Source: "The leaves of this palm are used by the local indigenous people for making roof thatch. However, this is quite rare now and only occurs during a celebration feast (Chan & Saw, 2009)." "Johannesteijsmannia lanceolata is an endemic species and is known locally in Selangor and Negeri Sembilan as Slender Joey Palm or chica in Malay" Tan, Kok Kiat; Lee, Su See (31 May 2020). "Johannesteijsmannia lanceolata J. Dransf". Malaysia Biodiversity Information System. Malaysia Biodiversity Centre. Retrieved 11 September 2024.

Table Saw, Leng Guan; Chan, Yoke Mui (January 2009). "The Uses of Johannesteijsmannia by Indigenous Communities and the Current Ornamental Trade in the Genus". Palms. 53 (3): 147–152. Retrieved 11 September 2024.

• • Reviewed: Pituamkek National Park Reserve
  • Comment: Tan and Lee refer to kenduri as a "celebration feast", Yoke Mui Chan identifies this specifically as kenduri in the table provided (citation 2, "The Uses of Johannesteijsmannia by Indigenous Communities and the Current Ornamental Trade in the Genus", in this nomination). Thank you in advance to the reviewer for their time, I will provide a QPQ hopefully later today. Done!

Created by Ornithoptera (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 42 past nominations.

Ornithoptera (talk) 21:22, 11 September 2024 (UTC).

• This is new enough and long enough. QPQ done. Some copyediting is needed to reduce close paraphrasing from the most-used source. I also think a new hook is needed. The hook suggests the selective collection is universal, while the article states this is only for the Orang Asli of Negeri Sembilan. If a fact is to be made about a group or groups of Orang Asli, I am unsure why the Malay name would be used in the hook. Lastly, the linked kenduri article suggests that the practice is Javanese, which is quite removed from Negeri Sembilan Orang Asli. CMD (talk) 08:58, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

• Hi Chipmunkdavis! Thank you for taking the time to read through the article, I will try my best to address your concerns and see what we can do to resolve your concerns:

1. "Some copyediting is needed" I will work to resolve this in a few, I will reply to this once completed. It should be resolved now.
2. "Orang Asli of Negeri Sembilan." I will propose an updated hook, or workshop an ALT1 to address this concern if that could help.
3. "I am unsure why the Malay name would be used in the hook." Tan and Lee identify the language as Malay, and the Orang Asli communities presumably used Malay when communicating with Yoke Mui Chan. I can also just refer to J. lanceolata as the "slender joey", but the vagueness of chica could be hook-ier.
4. "the linked kenduri article suggests that the practice is Javanese" Kenduri is in fact not exclusively Javanese, it is practiced in Malaysia as well. Per Britannica: "important life events ... are usually celebrated by a feast, known in Malay as kenduri ... In rural areas the kenduri is normally held at the house of the host family." I'm assuming that the original author of the Wiki article was or is more familiar with the practice in an Indonesian context but both countries have kenduri, and Saw and Chan explicitly identify the practice as kenduri.

Hope this can address all the bases outlined by your concerns. Thank you for your time! Ornithoptera (talk) 23:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Examples that are too close text-wise:

• "Compared to related species, the leaves of the Slender Joey are narrower"/"Compared to other species in the same genus, the leaves of this species are narrower"
• "The leaves of the palm were used by local Indigenous peoples for roof thatching"/"The leaves of this palm are used by the local indigenous people for making roof thatch"

More broadly, the Description section has copied the structure of the source, each sentence mirroring the source's sentence placement.

To clarify, I don't object to the Malay name per se, it's just that when reading about an Orang Asli tradition I would expect to see nouns from their indigenous language. However, you make a good point that they are likely to have communicated with others in Malay.

Would you be able to make a very small edit to kenduri based on your knowledge, so that its use in the hook will make sense to readers? Then we could also specify that the hook refers to the Orang Asli of Negeri Sembilan and the hook concept will work. CMD (talk) 03:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Chipmunkdavis, I have taken the time to adjust the article accordingly. In addition, I have adjusted the kenduri article per your request. I don't know whether you have read the table or not, but the names provided are presumably the ones the Orang Asli communities do use. On an informal basis, the Orang Asli communities of Negeri Sembilan presumably speak a similar language to Standard Malay (they're quite closely related, so there is an assumption of mutual intelligibility). There isn't much information on Ulu Kelaka in English language sources, nor is there much information regarding the Orang Asli communities there but I would have tried to provide further information on the matter. In terms of the name, I would have to reasonably assume the name is the same in both languages and would not be different in the local language as recorded. I highly doubt this is a matter of a separate Malay name being prioritized over an unknown Indigenous name, it is simply a matter that the language identified is Malay and that it is also the name that the communities use. Regardless, I will propose the following ALT hook per your request:

• ALT1: ... that among the Orang Asli of Negeri Sembilan, chica is only collected during kenduri rituals?

Good to go per further editing and explanation. CMD (talk) 02:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)