Talk:Jocko Thompson/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Canadian Paul 03:34, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I will be reviewing this article in the near future, most likely tomorrow. Canadian Paul 03:34, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

...and here it is!

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Some comments:

1. Not a GA requirement, but it would be nice to see some alt text on the two main images per Wikipedia:Alternative text for images.
2. The image in the infobox requires a caption - doesn't have to be fancy, but perhaps something about when the picture was taken approximately or even just "Jocko Thompson during his tenure with the Phillies". Also, the fair use rationale refers to someone called "Caballero" in the description.
3. Per WP:LEAD, the lead should summarize all the major sections of the article; currently there is nothing there from the "Early career" section.
4. Is there anything, even a sentence or two, about his early life that could be included in the "Early career" section? Right now, the article starts and we're not even introduced to the man... we've skipped right past his early life and his joining a team or attending a university... he's already playing baseball! It would be nice for flow purposes to be eased into it. Even a "Thompson was born in X on Y to parents Z" would help here.
5. Same section - "After the 1940 college season, Thompson was signed by the Boston Red Sox as an amateur free agent." - per WP:OBVIOUS, you should mention that the Boston Red Sox are part of Major (as opposed to say, minor, or a university club) League Baseball. Yes, most people are going to know this, but it's still necessary.
6. One problem that was evident in the lead, but becomes a significant issue in the "Military service" is the flow - here the flow is disrupted by short paragraphs and two sentences that earn their own subsection. My general rule that paragraphs should be at least three sentences long and, if they're not, they should be either combined with another paragraph or expanded. I've been bypassing this in my past GA reviews as of late, but here it is a problem and makes the article more difficult to read. Unless it can be expanded, the "Awards and decorations" part doesn't need to be its own paragraph, let alone its own subsection. Removing the subsection and combining the two "paragraphs" would solve the problem here. This is also somewhat of an issue in the "After the majors" section; it meets my requirement technically, so it's not something you have to change, but the flow is a bit choppy here as well.
7. Under "Return to baseball", first paragraph, sentences should never begin with the word "however", as it disrupts the flow and can almost always be reworded to place the "however" somewhere else in the sentence. I also noticed this in the second paragraph of "1948-1949".
8. This may just be my opinion, so it's not something mandatory to change, but I feel like "Though" is somewhat colloquial when "Although" could be used in its place (twice in the first paragraph of "1950-1951")
9. The end of the "Minor leagues" section and the beginning of the "Post-baseball" section both use "retired from baseball" in some form. Please try to change this up (for example, at the beginning of "Post-baseball", you could say "After his playing days ended..." or anything like that).
10. The second external link doesn't even mention Thompson; is it really necessary?

To allow for these changes to be made I am placing the article on hold for a period of up to a week. I'm always open to discussion on any of the items, so if you think I'm wrong on something leave your thoughts here and we'll discuss. I'll be checking this page at least daily, unless something comes up, so you can be sure I'll notice any comments left here. Canadian Paul 01:53, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Following items are completed:

• 1 (alt added), 2 (caption added and rationale fixed), 3 (added fact from "Early career" to lead), 5 (added MLB), 6 (combined paras in Military service section, but not in After the majors, as there's not a lot of info there to combine, and it's split at a logical location), 8 (Although added), and 9 (changed as suggested).

On item 4: I know nothing about the man's parents. I could add a line about the birthdate and place only, but it's just duplicating content from the infobox. That is why I intentionally titled the section "Early career" rather than "Early life". Thompson is a player that's quite obscure (why I even attempted to undertake his article, I'll never know) and information is extremely scarce. I already spent 45 dollars on a source to write this article, and it doesn't have the information. Neither do Baseball-Reference or The Baseball Cube.

On 7: "However" is an acceptable transitional word; I see no rationale that would support never using it.

On 10: This article is from the Phillies' official site and talks about the Whiz Kids; as I'm creating the final articles for players who don't exist on their roster, I'm trying to include this link about the Whiz Kids in each player article to tie them together.

All certainly open for discussion. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

This article should have two infoboxes like Elmer Gedeon, but maybe in the opposite order.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:35, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding #4, fair enough if there's nothing out there. While I personally feel that the article starts very abruptly and would duplicate the information (not everyone reads the infobox), that's just my opinion, so I'll leave it be. Regarding #7, as I said, it's just disruptive of the flow, which was a significant problem with the article when I was doing the review. Whenever I hit the word "however", my immediate reaction is to relate it back to what it is referring to, which obviously I cannot do if it's at the beginning of the sentence, so it throws me off. So I have the opposite view point - I see no rationale that supports using it at the beginning since sentences are easily reformed. Again, however, since the choppiness of the article has mostly been remedied, I'll let it be for now and let the higher powers deal with your sins. Don't say that I didn't try and save you. ;)

Number 10, however, is something that could be addressed. That's a good explanation for the external link, but the problem is that the Whiz Kids concept is only mentioned in a "See also" link - it would be nice to have some context for this, maybe a sentence or two under "1950-1951" that puts his participation into context with the Whiz Kids? That would explain why you have both the see also link and the external link. Right now, even as I read it, I was thinking why is this here, what is the relation? Canadian Paul 15:52, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

OK, I did change one of the two "However"s; the other one is intended to be very arresting, so I left it in. I tried to address item 10 by refactoring the opening sentence of the 1950-51 section. Let me know if that's the context you were looking for or if I need to add more. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:08, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Nope, that's perfect! It gives me enough of a "hmm... I wonder what the Whiz Kids are?" without distracting from the focus of the article. I think that the lead might work better with two paragraphs than three, but that's just a personal opinion, which means that it's time to pass this article as GA. Congratulations and thank you for your hard work! Canadian Paul 17:16, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Cheers! Thanks so much for your time. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:29, 12 April 2010 (UTC)