Talk:Jim Clark

Formula 1 record

"Most wins leading throughout a GP in a season" What does this mean? GameLegend (talk) 12:16, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

It means most occasions, in a single season, where a driver won a race having led the entire race. DH85868993 (talk) 00:44, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

... FYI: the phrase you people are groping for would be, "wire-to-wire." Remedial English for Idiots, 101: the proper way of expressing this thought would be: "... the most wire-to-wire victories by a driver, throughout a Grand Prix season." A significant variation of this particular statistic would be: "... the most 'consecutive' (e.g., back-to-back) wire-to-wire victories by a driver, throughout a Grand Prix season."

In Formula 1 it's called 'pole to flag'. Khamba Tendal (talk) 22:56, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

In English, in Clark's day, it was 'flag to flag' Eagleash (talk) 18:49, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Clark's USAC & NASCAR Record

This is awful! This ranks amongst the worst Wikipedia pages I've seen! If you please, whoever it is encharged curation chores on Jimmy Clark's page, we need a complete USAC table on Clark's Wikipedia, for which to cite, and link to. It's missing. That Jim Clark's entire USAC record (and his NASCAR record) is missing from his page, is an abomination! His pole position at Trenton in 1963, his 1967 front row starting spot alongside Dan Gurney in the Rex Mays 300 at Riverside, his 1963 win at the Milwalkee Fairgrounds, no less historic than his 1965 Indianapolis 500 victory, these milestones deserve inclusion on his Wikipedia page. Source (for starters):

http://www.racing-reference.info/driver/Jimmy_Clark http://www.racing-reference.info/drivdet/clarkji02/1967/UO http://www.racing-reference.info/rquery?id=clarkji02&trk=t0&series=W http://www.racing-reference.info/drivdet/clarkji02/1963/UO

"whoever it is encharged curation chores on Jimmy Clark's page" That'd be you, then. Ian Dalziel (talk) 22:27, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

... once this page was locked, the onus for its continual improvement now lands, squarely upon the shoulders of those having locked it. We can't very well improve this page, if it's on lock-down. Now, can we? If you please, unlock the page, so we can amend Jimmy Clark's racing resume! If you people otherwise prefer dragging your feet, allowing it remain incomplete, and erroneous, then please advise. And, we'll cease and desist, trying. Ball's in your court. Decide what you want to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.39.26.140 (talk • contribs)

I have asked for the page to be unlocked. I'll notify here if/when that happens. DH85868993 (talk) 04:10, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I've unprotected the page - @100.39.26.140: - be WP:BOLD, but keep in mind its WP:BRD. If your edits are challenged, then you discuss here on the talk page. The alternative is that the article ends up protected again. Good luck! Mjroots (talk) 20:17, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

With the best will in the world...do we really need a table for Clark's NASCAR 'record'? The only race in which he ever took part is mentioned in the main body of the article; I'd settle for adding that he was lying 12th when he retired due to engine failure. Halmyre (talk) 12:47, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

No we don't. Removed. QueenCake (talk) 21:52, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

@QueenCake and Jahn1234567890: I see your argument, but I must respectfully disagree. NASCAR is one of the highest-ranked motorsport series in the world. The tables are obviously notable for a typical NASCAR driver, and in my opinion, either a table is notable for everyone to have ever raced in the series, or it is notable for no one who ever raced in the series. I don't want to start an edit war, so I'm letting my opinion be known here so that we can discuss the issue in a civilized manner. Thanks, --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 13:08, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

@QueenCake: Do you have a response? @Jahn1234567890: Since you work almost exclusively with the tables, I'd appreciate it if you could let your opinion be known as well. I don't mean to pester, but it has been a couple of days and I see no progress being made. Thanks, --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 19:28, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

A little while ago there was a discussion and it was decided that one round was not enough to add tables to driver pages. I guess that's the reason why the table got removed. Personally I think results should be as complete as they can be so I would add any internatinal series anuway. But the highest tier of NASCAR racing should definitely be notable enough for a table, even if Clark only participated in one Grand National event. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 20:19, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Jahn, for your response. Per this, I'll go ahead and boldly reinstate the results (or, technically, result). If anyone disagrees, I am open to further discussion. Thanks, --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 20:35, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

I would suggest that a one-off appearance, with no effect on the related championship would be better covered in in prose form rather than with a table and the table does not convey any of the realted context to the appearance. I would support removing the table in preference for a paragraph describing the event.

After all, the table does not convey any of the importance of the result. As it presently stands it is just a statistic and valueless in context.

And people do not talk in tables. --Falcadore (talk) 12:29, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

It's one race that in the context of Jim Clark's career is almost entirely non-notable. This page already has plenty of results tables detailing his F1, Le Mans and Indy results, which are more important than Nascar, so adding another for a minor sidetrack isn't needed. You only really need tables for regular entrants, or those whose one-off appearance was the most notable event of that driver's career. QueenCake (talk) 15:59, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Look at Clark's Racing-reference page. NASCAR is the first series listed. Now that isn't to suggest that this NASCAR result is more notable than his F1 and Indy results, but it does prove my point that the top level of NASCAR (or, as Jahn mentions above, the "highest tier" of NASCAR racing) is one of the most notable racing series in the world United States. If this is notable for every other driver to have ever raced in NASCAR, it should be notable for Clark. --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 20:08, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

(1) The racing reference page you reference is a web-site. It is not an authoritative source. (2) NASCAR is notable in the United States only, and has next to no presence in the rest of the world. (3) Can you guarantee that EVERY driver who raced in NASCAR has a Wiki page with a table of their results? (4) Clark did not compete in the NASCAR series. He took part in ONE race in what was practically a guest appearance. It was an itch he had to scratch, and once scratched he moved on without a backward glance. In summary, Clark's NASCAR record does not require a table, and the entry in the body of the article says all that needs to be said. Halmyre (talk) 22:02, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

1. Granted.

2. Granted, I got carried away in the original argument.

3. Ideally, yes, they would; however, the NASCAR WikiProject is behind in adding the tables to older-generation drivers.

4. Plenty of drivers who took part in one race have the tables, but after having another thought, it seems to me this table is not as notable as I originally thought. At this point, I honestly think that the four points Halmyre argues above have made it clear that the table is not necessary in this article, and I will thus be removing it shortly. Perhaps we need to have a discussion on how many races a driver needs to run before the tables are included. Thanks, --Bentvfan54321 (talk) 22:22, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Images

My request on these images to be on and if its on it can be worth millions.(talk) 18:15, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Blocked out images Zwerg Nase (talk) 18:41, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm really not sure what you think you mean by "can be worth millions". Wikipedia pages are never worth anything. I think you are adding too many images, and it makes the page hard to read. Let's see what other people think. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:20, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I hate cleaning up after this guy..... Seems like there are days where I hardly do anything else. Why do people spend their day disrupting the lives of others? Get a life, man... Zwerg Nase (talk) 18:41, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) :This page is about a person. I would think that anything more than 2 or 3 images of the subject of the article is unnecessary. There is 'room' for perhaps a couple of significant cars driven or significant events but columns of pictures squeezing the text is not the required standard. (Oh. & me too!) Eagleash (talk) 18:47, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

The caption on the picture

Clark in the Lotus pit at the 1964 German Grand Prix.

is quite doubtful, the car (wich is probably a Lotus 35) is equiped with a Ford Cosworth SCA engine, so it is certainly a Formula 2. Jim Clark used a Lotus 33 with a Climax V8 at the '64 German Grand Prix.2A01:CB18:81EA:F000:4962:C64F:ED3C:CC32 (talk) 14:56, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

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1962 Mexican Grand Prix

The webpage http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/archive/f1/nc/1962/1962.html#mex indicates that Clark took over Trevor Taylor's Lotus 24 in this race. However, the race is discussed at length at http://forums.autosport.com/topic/54520-non-champ-mexican-gp/ and Taylor's car was definitely a Lotus 25, as mentioned in several contemporary race reports and confirmed by data in the possession of author and Lotus historian Doug Nye. The silhouet data is a typographical error - note that the chassis number is given as 'R2', which is a Type 25 designation, not a Type 24. Halmyre (talk) 17:06, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

this (no idea as to it's reliability) and this also state Lotus 25. Eagleash (talk) 12:53, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Formula Two Championship

I've removed the 1967/1968 entry for the European F2 Championship. Clark wasn't eligible for championship points so it's pointless(!) to have a section relating to his results for it. I have renamed the section as 'NOTABLE Formula Two Championship results' and included the 1965 Trophees de France, for which he was eligible, is the only year in which he won it, and the only F2 championship he ever won. Halmyre (talk) 12:14, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

I would have to to disagree on this one. The European Formula Two Championship was a very notable racing series (definitely in the early years). Formula one drivers took part in the series through the 1970's. A driver was ineligible for EC-points if they had scored points in the Formula one World Championship. In all fairness, the European Championship is way more notable than the French Championship. Even if Clark was ineligible for points. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 12:27, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

By all means list his F2 race record (I'm working on that; 50 races in 6 seasons, 16 wins), but there's no point in listing his performance in a Championship for which he isn't eligible, however noteworthy it is. After all, the official records for the Championship don't mention Clark. Incidentally, the 1965 Trophees de France wascomprised of four races at Pau, Reims, Rouen and Albi, any of which are notable circuits in themselves, and Clark competed against the likes of Rindt, Brabham, Hill, Hulme and Stewart, so it wasn't an inconsequential award. Halmyre (talk) 13:13, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Clark also competed againts the likes of Surtees, Mclaren, Brabham, Hill and Stewart in the European Championship races. Just beacuse he was ineligible for points doesn't mean the results are not notable. The European Championship is notable enough for results even though a driver is not listed in the championship standings. We also display non-Championship F1 races and drivers so I don't see why we should not display his European Championship results just because he was not eligible for points. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 16:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Agree the F2 championship results should be retained. To remove them would mean multiple pages would also have to be altered in respect of the graded drivers of the time. As it stands this is a mass change without seeking consensus. Eagleash (talk) 22:06, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

I also agree; I don't see how Clark's eligibility or otherwise for a championship affects the importance of his race results. Some F1 drivers were occasionally ineligible for points in GPs but their results are always shown. Eagleash is right that it's an issue that affects a lot of articles so a wider consensus would be required anyway. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:23, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

In which case we should include all his F2 results, as I proposed earlier. The races chosen for the 1967 and 1968 F2 Championship are only a subset of all the F2 races in those years, and Clark's results for the 1967 Championship races aren't particularly special - 1 win and 3 retirements aren't representative of his F2 career. Halmyre (talk) 22:53, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Include them all then; they must surely all be available. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:00, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 3 May 2016

I have some history I know that you don't.

92.21.252.132 (talk) 20:09, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Why is this protected? TheModestQuinn (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

The article was semi-protected in December 2015, following persistent vandalism. (I notice you are a new editor. In case you are asking "why is this edit request semi-protected?", that's not what the section title means - "Semi-protected edit request" means "edit request for a semi-protected article", not "edit request which is semi-protected"). Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 00:11, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2022

He is the most successful british driver in history again. 2603:8000:3E43:4D00:85E9:ABA:A43C:3C62 (talk) 00:32, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. BlueNoise (talk) 00:39, 15 October 2022 (UTC)