Talk:Jew's harp/Archive 1

Archive 1

Photo

I can't imagine the item in the photo listed as a "Jew's harp, from an American Civil War camp near Winchester, Virginia" is any such thing. It is almost certainly late Victorian or Edwardian, and English. Don't you think? -Bhasmanath

Atticus Finch?

Should it be mentioned that Atticus Finch, of To Kill A Mockingbird fame, plays a Jew's Harp? There is a mention of Snoopy playing one, so shouldn't Atticus have his ability mentioned as well? Vadskye 17:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

archaeology

Where the comment "citation needed" appeared in reference to the guimbard being one of the world's oldest instruments, I have added in a finding from the last external link about "origin of the jew's harp." (I had added that new link on my last tour through this page.) If anyone wants to make an explicit link between the assertion and the reference, they are welcome to -- I'm not sure about the correct format.

Summerbell 17:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Terminological controversy seen neutrally

As both a mycologist and an occasional guimbard player, with a collection of khomus music from around the world, I thought it would be illuminating to mention, in a completely neutral way, why the term jew's harp, like the jew's ear fungus, is surrounded by a corona of alternative inventions (though the Auricularia article doesn't mention all the recent English expressions that have been engendered from Asian languages, such as black fungus, wood ears, tree ears and so on.) The derisory impact of jew's ear is a little bit more obvious than that which arguably might attach to jew's harp. I myself wouldn't be caught dead saying jew's harp no matter how many google hits the term gets. Whatever its real origin may be, the term raises the suspicion that it may be rooted in the antisemitic miserliness stereotype -- little cheap harp with minimal number of strings.

Summerbell 12:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

That's not "neutral" seems very emotional to me - come come, what's in a name?--John of Paris 17:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Lament recently did a copy-and-paste move of the content here to Jew's harp with the edit summary "Jew's harp is correct". I have reverted this move, since it broke the history (all the previous versions were still at this location, but the article was elsewhere).

I don't really object to the article being at Jew's harp, but I don't see why that's a better name than this one. As the article notes, "Jew's harp" is indeed one name for the instrument, but "Jaw harp" is another, and I don't see any reason to prefer one over the other. Since the article is here now, and has been here for some time, and since both names are common, I suggest that we leave it here. But in any case, if we are going to move it for some reason, we ought to do it properly by using the "move" link (so all the history moves with it) rather than doing a cut-and-paste.

So... any particularly pressing reasons to have this at Jew's harp rather than here? I'm happy to delete Jew's harp and do the move properly if there's really a reason to do so. --Camembert

The main reason is usage. 6460 google hits for "jaw harp"; 11400 for "jew's harp" (and 11600 for "jew harp"). "Jew's harp" is a centuries-old name, and "Jaw harp" is a modern term, probably resulting from a misspelling (source: http://www.jewsharpguild.org/history.html ). Also see: http://www.jewsharpguild.org/namepol.html --lament 05:06, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"Jew's harp is a centuries-old name" seems like a challenging argument. You wouldn't suggest moving African Americans with such logic... Dan (talk) 16:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes. I don't know why it even came up. (well, I do). I don't know much about this, but I've heard of a Jew's harp, so I looked it up. It was mentioned on a recording. I've never heard of a "jaws" harp. List thing by how they are known, not what someone thinks they should be called. It's supposed to be easy to find. Venqax (talk) 18:18, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

OK, good enough for me :) I've moved it. --Camembert

So why is it a "harp" at all? Seems like a percussion instrument to me, more rhythmic than harmonic. Any answer by historians? Any examples where it has been played in any capacity that is not exclusively rhythmic? --71.245.164.83 (talk) 02:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

It's not just the google hits, all but one of the external links here refer to the Jew's Harp, not jaws harp. So do most of the bibliography items. This would seem to point to predominant uses of "Jew's Harp" amongst important or reliable sources.70.171.204.39 (talk) 06:23, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

It appears that "mouth harp" is the preferred term among reliable sources: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=jew+%27s+harp%2Cjews+harp%2Cjew+harp%2Cmouth+harp%2Cjaw+harp&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&case_insensitive=on&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3 Viking is a pun based on the editor vi (talk) 15:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Photograph

If anyone is interested, I recently added another photo of a jew's harp on Commons. Image:Jew's harp --LoganCale (talk | contribs) 05:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

The photograph shown on the page is NOT from the 1860s - the footnote shows the 1860s example.

jews to juice

It can't be Jew's harp but jews harp, the name seems to be a carry thru of the the more ancient names such as gew jaw, maybe gee-gaw is related but the term juice harp is just plain wrong and its possible origin i.e. that playing it produces saliva is also wrong. I've been paying this instrument nearly 40 years and it produces no more saliva than speaking. Unless you are playing it wrong or badly. The attempt to be PC by avoiding the name jews harp and replacing it with jaw or juice is pretty ridiculous IMHO. -- I'm sorry I meant to sign this, artroublec21@earthlink.net

See #Article name change below. Hyacinth (talk) 19:35, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the "juice harp" name just comes from misunderstanding the way "Jew's harp" is pronounced, and someone just invented the "saliva" reasoning to explain it. I know I always thought it was a "juice harp" all my life until I reached adulthood and learned people were really saying "Jew's harp." 67.65.44.29 (talk) 04:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Why do people think there's some profound English language etymology for the name of this instrument. The name is Jew's harp in other languages where there's no

"juice" and no similarity with Jew and jaw. The name is obviously a translation of the usual European names for the instrument, there's no need to invent some absurd English etymology for the instruments name, it's just a translation from some other language.2.104.41.248 (talk) 16:17, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Big list of translations moved to Wiktionary

I moved the big list of names in other languages to Wiktionary where it belongs. If any of them are especially important or interesting, feel free to mention them in prose, but please don't just start another list. —Keenan Pepper 20:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Not a good idea. If we were giving translations of the names of the saxophone in various languages (i.e. "saksofon" in Czech or "saxofono" in Italian, or whatever) that would be pointless. But all the named instruments are quite different, culturally specific instruments. We need to provide the information users need to get them to the right place and with the exception of morsing they will not have that without the list. It's equivalent to a list of instrument types such as bamboo flutes, double reed instruments, lamellophones, panpipes, etc., all of which are quite important and valuable to our users. Badagnani 08:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay... they're all different and special... so we're going to emphasize that by not mentioning how they're different and just listing their names? I really don't understand what you're trying to do here. Please explain why you did exactly what I asked you not to do without adding any new information. —Keenan Pepper 01:28, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Opening Sentence

I want to strongly contest the opening sentence. To state that the Jew's harp is one of the oldest instruments in the world is is a common cliché and an opinion without foundation that does not have its place in Wikipedia. There are three points to make: i) The word Jew's harp is used in English as a generic term covering a wide variety of intruments sharing a common basic working principle. ii) As a locally-conceived instrument, it is widespread, but by no means universal, the East-West limits ranging from Galicia in Western Spain to the Solomon Islands. Outside of that zone, unless any new material is forthcoming, Jew's harp playing cultures used imported instruments from Europe as they have always been very popular trade goods at least since the 17th Century; There are also instruments made in some parts of Africa and South America that appear to have been inspired from these imported instruments. iii) Compared to other instruments like flutes, stringed instruments etc, the working principle is complex and difficult to come by which is probably why its distribution is limited. The extent of its distribution is all the same something of a miracle and suggests that the principle was discovered long ago, but this does not mean it is "one of the oldest instruments in the world".--John of Paris 13:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

That statement does need a source, but I notice you're not citing any sources either. —Keenan Pepper 21:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see how giving a source for such an empty statement will validate it. You can say the same thing about almost any type of musical instrument. The earliest known trace of a musical instrument of any kind is what appears to be a musical bow in the prehistoric cave painting in the Trois Frères cave in France. You won't be able to find traces of Jew's harps going back much earlier than about 1000 AD, although the wide distribution does of course suggest it is older. No I don't cite any source, but am stating verifiable facts. However these facts are only verifiable in printed sources (of which none are given in the article) and not on the web as far as I know (The links given are mostly people selling them with very sketchy knowledge of the instrument). The Jew's harp is a vast subject and this article should be considered as a very inadequate stub. I will be away for a couple of weeks, but we can continue the discussion on my return if you like and I will give some bibliographic sources. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by John of Paris (talk • contribs) .

I don't understand why you say it's an "empty statement". It might be wrong, but it's certainly not meaningless. I agree with you about the lack of scholarly sources though, and I'll be on the lookout for them. —Keenan Pepper 07:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I've beeen away for much longer than I promised. OK, if I say that the statement can be shown to be neither wrong nor right, in other words it is vacuous, how will that do?--John of Paris 17:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget Neanderthal flutes. People sometimes forget that music is very old, with the oldest known instruments and the oldest known hyoid bones usable for speech coming from nearly the same timeframe (but alas, very rare finds). 70.15.116.59 21:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Alternate names

It appears that a disagreement exists over whether Mouth harp refers to a Harmonica or a Jew's harp. I have changed it from a redirect to a disambiguation page but I wonder if there is any documentation of these usages? (Same message left on the Harmonica talk page.) Cmadler 12:48, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

In Film

I believe I saw a jew's harp in the film Bound.

–Misha Vargas

216.254.12.114 23:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there's a jew's harp in Once upon a time in the West, Sergio Leone, 1968.

86.212.107.173 20:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)N. Kxrieg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.212.107.173 (talk) 10:05, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

And heard in the 2nd track of "Rocketeer", albeit short. I think also briefly in "Fievel Goes West", both by James Horner. I'm sure there are more. --71.245.164.83 (talk) 03:51, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Jew Harp in the song Good Vibrations.

I've added "Good Vibrations" to the list of songs the instrument features in. Citation is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/soldonsong/songlibrary/indepth/goodvibrations.shtml

Proposed Moorsing Merge

I'm all for it. Moorsings, dan mois, mukkuri, kou xiang, kubings . . . there is such a wide variety of these instruments under so many different names that to spread them out over multiple pages seems silly. Tzaquiel 19:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose merge. We have individual articles on many kinds of flute, drum, oboe, bowed string instrument, etc. This is a culturally specific instrument with playing technique that is distinct from other Jew's harps, and there is a lot to say about it in its own article. Badagnani 02:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Oppose merge: We should not combine any articles, because it seems stupid that we hack away perfectly good articles for no apparent reason, but to save space.

Oppose merge. No doubt these instruments may share common origins, but the diversity is undeniable too. As the writer of the exiting stub has clearly demonstrate, the morsing is closely tied to Carnatic percussion in particular. Using a food analogy, a dosa is very different from a pancake even though they are similar in many ways.

Oppose merge: Morsing as I have been stating from the time i started the page here, is as different as it is similar to its cousing the jew's harp. In the same line of thought, Guitar and a Sitar or a Veena pages also should be merged. But they wont be as people are well aware of the differences. So, though morsing and Jew's harp work on the same principle, the reason for which they are used and the way they are played is very different and those two should not be merged.--Bharadwaj R Sathavalli 10:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Be very careraful

Well i'm not teenager, but as it's written in article Supervise teenagers playing this instrument very carefully as permanent fractures to the teeth can easily be formed if care is not taken. I wasn't and my front teeth have fracture :( I think i'll add this warning to the top of article.

Objectiveness of Title

In accordance with those who feel that the title of this article could be changed, I feel that the article's title should be changed in order to remain objective. Since the origin of the instrument is unknown, there should be no reason to give credit to any denomination.

See #Article name change below. Hyacinth (talk) 19:33, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

In popular music

I cannot find out what instrument can be heard in Gwen Stefani's Candyland (The Sweet Escape, 2006). It could be a jew's harp but many others things. I'd like to have no doubt about it.

86.212.107.173 10:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC) N. Kxrieg

Article name change

Since the instrument has nothing to do with Judaism and is not universally known by this name, I believe the article should be named something more appropriate, like mouth harp. That's what I always heard it called. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.219.197.56 (talk) 14:05, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe the title is currently at Jew's harp per Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Use common names of persons and things. Hyacinth (talk) 19:33, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

In the US, the term "mouth harp" refers to a harmonica, particularly among blues musicians. Just thought I'd throw that out there.Dcs002 (talk) 08:53, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know, it's supposed to be called a Jaw Harp, and Jew's Harp is an incorrect name stemming from that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.167.53.202 (talk) 14:34, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Nope, that's entirely backwards, much in the same way that rarebit is a bowdlerization from "Welsh rabbit". --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 15:01, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I have added a source for this. The term Jew's Harp is as much as 200 years older.70.171.204.39 (talk) 06:17, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Name controversy.

The article says "the common English name 'jew's harp' is controversial and is avoided by many speakers" but this claim is uncited and unexplained. I am curious why it might be seen as controversial; I have never heard the instrument called anything but jew's harp and can't see anything wrong with that name. I would appreciate the addition of an explanatory citation and note.

63.169.191.34 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 18:41, 13 February 2009 (UTC).

Some people see the word Jew as a racial slur by default without reference to the context. For an amusing satire of this phenomenon, see the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode "The Gang Goes Jihad."70.171.204.39 (talk) 06:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

revision to Norwegian section, etc

I have just added information to the Norwegian section as well as near the beginning of the page regarding use of the glottis in playing the munnharpe. While I am unfamiliar with other traditions, I do play the Norwegian style in which the closing of the glottis is an important method to obtain those 'in between' notes. Since this may not be done everywhere, I have only said "in some traditions.." I have also erased part of one sentence that said the munnharpe can play major scales, which I have not found to be true. I am new to editing, so I'm sorry if I have offended anyone. please let me know if and why you disagree with my revisions. Panchalli (talk) 07:46, 12 November 2009 (UTC)Panchalli

Archiving Usage material before removing unsourced

Archived Usage material before rm'ing Unsourced

==Use== In traditional music The Jew's harp is an integral element in the music of Tuva. Known as the khomuz, the instrument is used to play the same overtone melodies used in the khoomei, sygyt, and kargyraa styles of overtone singing. Different variations of the komuz spread to several eastern European countries such as the Ukraine, Poland and Hungary during the 4th-5th century A.D, during the mass migration of the Huns into the region. There they became known with similar variations of the name. (See : kobza)The instrument is also a traditional part of Alpine musical styles, from Hungary to France. The earliest trouve in Europe is a bronze-harp dating 5th to 8th century. In Turkic traditional music An interesting Kirgiz practice is a marionette play called ‘’tak-teke’’ (jumping-goat). In this, player attaches a small goat figure to a string and ties the string to his right hand. He moves the puppet skillfully while he plays the instrument temir komuz. The instrument also used trough Sakha or Yakut people, and in Tuvan music with the name xomus. In Norwegian traditional music The Mouth harp (or munnharpe) is also strong in Norwegian traditional music. It is more melody based than rhythm/effects. The overtone is not only pitched with the shape of the mouth but also further back in the throat by using an opening and closing of the glottis technique. With this technique the Norwegian players can play almost all the traditional fiddle/hardanger fiddle tunes. The oldest archeological mouth harp discoveries in Norway date back to around 1200. The reason why older instruments haven't been found could be because the Norwegian Mouth harp, unlike other places around the world (except some discoveries in the Benelux countries), is made in a way that makes it possible to replace the reed if it were to be broken. In classical music Around 1765, Beethoven's teacher Johann Georg Albrechtsberger composed at least seven concerti for Jew's harp, mandora, and strings (three survive in a library in Budapest). They are pleasant, well written works in the galant style, interpreting melodies of contemporary Austrian folk songs. The American composer Charles Ives's Holidays Symphony features a brief solo for Jew's harp in the first movement ('Washington's Birthday'). In Indian classical music In Carnatic music, the instrument is often used for percussion accompaniment. This instrument is commonly known as a "moorsing" or "morsing" in India. Satyajit Ray has used a taniyaavartanam that uses this and other percussion instruments in his movie Gopi Gayen Bhaga Bayen. In Sindhi Music In Sindhi the Jaw harp is called Changu (چنگُ). In Sindhi music, it can be an accompaniment or the main instrument. One of the most famous players is Amir Bux Ruunjho. Sindhi Changu by Amir Bux Ruunjho In World Music The Jew's harp is frequently to be found in the repertoire of music played by alternative or world music bands. Sandy Miller of the UK-based Brazilian samba/funk band Tempo Novo, plays a Jew's harp solo in the piece Canto de Ossanha. In Vietnamese Music Đàn môi is the Vietnamese name of a traditional musical instrument widely used in minority ethnic groups in Vietnam. This instrument is somewhat similar to Jew's harp but there are some differences. In popular music The Jew's harp has been used on occasion in rock and pop music. It is also used occasionally in folk, country and bluegrass music. It is featured throughout the Red Hot Chili Peppers song "Give It Away" (in the album liner notes for the latter, the instrument is referred to as a "Juice Harp"), on both the intro and outro of The Who's single "Join Together", and in the intro to Keith Anderson's single, "Pickin Wildflowers". A Jew's harp, played by Michal Wright (UK), has been used in the lullaby Twinkle Twinkle Little Star that was recorded as part of a European Union funded language education project within the Socrates programme. A video recording of the song can be heard on YouTube Twinkle Twinkle Little Star In film music The Jew's harp was used in the 1972 movie Snoopy Come Home. Snoopy plays this instrument. It also appears in Black Cat, White Cat by Emir Kusturica (1998)and in Ko to tamo peva (Who's That Singing Over There) by Slobodan Šijan (1980), and is heard in Support Your Local Sheriff (1969). It was also used extensively in the soundtrack for the 2009 movie Fantastic Mr. Fox. An example of the mouth harp being played exists in a celebration scene in the original The Wicker Man movie.

Doniago (talk) 18:56, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand this... How does one properly source the use of the Jew's harp in popular music? Join Together by The Who was a very influential example (and I can't believe the Ozark Mountain Daredevils weren't even mentioned). Pop & rock musicians have sold millions of recordings that prominently feature this instrument. I consider that notable. It should be in the article. So how does one properly "source" all of the cited examples? They weren't cited inline, but specific recordings were specifically cited. Removing this information as "unsourced" seems wrong to me. If the citations should be made in some other way, the material should just be tagged, not removed. Right? Am I missing something? Dcs002 (talk) 09:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

By providing third-party references that discuss the harp's use in music. Seems pretty straightforward to me. If there isn't a third-party reference discussing its use, how can we establish that the use is significant? Doniago (talk) 16:15, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

References

temir komuz material

Doesn't the recently added temir komuz stuff seem out of place and overly wordy? I see it has its own article -- wouldn't a brief mention and a link to it be better? M-1 (talk) 09:47, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

I believe that was all added by one possibly over-enthusiastic editor; trimming may be entirely appropriate. Doniago (talk) 13:21, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

The Sindhi take on Chang (the harp) - More research needed

I beg to differ with the wikipedia's conclusion. According the latest research it originated from Mohenjodaro (in Sindh, Pakistan) which had developed the use of metals which led to the invention of stringed instruments and Chang was one them. According to Shaikh Aziz in his compenddium published in 2007 - "The Origin and Evolution of Sindhi Music" published by Shah Abdul Latif Bhitai Chair, University of Karachi, he at pages 342 to 344 writes and I quote " To many, the existence of Jaw's harp in Mediterrannean and European communities may pose an enigma, but if we follow the trade track of the Indus valley entrepreneurs with Middle East and Mediterranean communities, a stricking resemblance can be found in almost all walks of life. The export of textile, dyes and other objects to these areas make it plausible that instruments like Chang might have found a new home in those areas where it was called Jew's harp. For the trade with Mesopotamia there is both literary and archaeological evidence. Some of the seals were evidently used to mark the bundles of merchandise. Historians cite that during the period of Saragon of Akkad (2371-16BC) and Isin-Larsa period (2020-1763BC), trade between this region and Mesopotamia was at its height. It was perhaps during this era that cultral exchanges took place and later when migrations from central Asia, Mediterranean and Asian Minor took place, a large number of objects including musical instrument found new homes. Historical evidence suggests that in the period corresponding to Akkadian rule, Mohenjodaro had developed the use of metals which led to the invention of stringed instruments and chang was one of them" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.198.147.165 (talk) 12:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

origins

This is also traditional instrument of Finnic tribes - Estonians, Fins, Saamis etc. , not a loan from Asia but original ancient piece of their cultures. Saying only that this is an Asian-Turkish is very misinforming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.65.192.85 (talk) 14:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Page Title

If this page preferences Jaw harp over Jew's harp, should the page be moved? Ocaasi ^{t | c} 03:42, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

In Popular Culture

Per Wikipedia:"In popular culture" content, which granted is an essay, and my reviews of other articles with such sections, I don't feel we should be creating a "random" list of situations in which the Jew's harp is heard unless there is a reliable source that discusses its use. Otherwise we seem to be paving the way for arbitrary references that we can't verify. Also, if we include a situation we are inherently suggesting that it is significant, which could be seen as violating WP:WEIGHT. Nevermind that it also seems to be WP:OR. I have removed a recent addition that was made without sourcing and invite the feedback of other editors. Thank you. Doniago (talk) 16:20, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Jaw removal

I've rolled back some edits from May which replaced every instance of "Jew's harp" with "Jaw harp". I think I managed to restore all the material added in the meantime (which wasn't much.) --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 15:13, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Can anything be done about this? Someone has reverted these instances back to Jaw Harp because they feel the wikipedia is the arena through which one should engage in inneffectual, self-congratulatory bowdlerizing. There is an overwhelming consensus on this talk page on the correct term, and it is "Jew's Harp."

I have changed the wording and removed the false etymology, replacing it with source material attesting to the use of Jew's Harp two centuries before Jaw Harp. If there is any way to forestall further changes by the self-interested, it would save the rest of us some effort. For those of you changing the page; first change the world, then change wikipeida, rather than the other way around.70.171.204.39 (talk) 06:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Does anyone have an illustrationof how it is held during playing?

While I'm familiar with this instrument from literature, I don't think I've I've never seen one played. Unfortunately the description and pictures in the article don't clearly indicate how it is held while playing. I can't even work out if the broad end or the "neck" goes into the mouth, or if it held horizontally or vertically. Does anyone have a close-up picture of one being held during playing?Mark Marathon (talk) 03:13, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

A Google Image search of "jews harp" will show several photos of people playing one properly, Mark, and at least one showing how to crack one's teeth while playing. The description under "Characteristics" should suffice, especially now that I've changed it from "hold against the parted front teeth" to "hold against the parted lips". Uncle Bubba (talk) 01:40, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Relation to Ainu "mukkur"?

Apparently, the Ainu people of Japan and Russia have a similar instrument called the mukkur, which can be seen and heard in this YouTube video. Also, the modern Japanese composer Masashi Hamauzu uses it occasionally, particularly on his "Imeruat" albums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.140.76.203 (talk) 02:23, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Small "j" jew's harp

Encyclopedia Britannica and the Columbia Encyclopedia as well as other online sources use jew's harp, which seems like a much less misleading title. I've heard of the instrument for decades and never connected it in my mind with the capital "J" Jewish people. I changed the entry to little "j." I'm sure someone will change it back, but I can't understand why. There is no reason to connect the instrument with Jewish people, history or culture. But, by maintaining this spelling, it should still be very easy to find for google searchers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.81.68 (talk) 19:20, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I think it's a case of what linguists call "reanalysis" -- we take something pre-existing and conclude that it's something other than what it originally was. I think you'll find that most people do actually believe that it refers to the Jewish people, which is why it's said that way anyhow. I'm not going to change it myself, because Wikipedia policy says I'd have to cite a source and I don't have one to hand. Prof Wrong (talk) 08:09, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Talking of sources, the [1] has it with a capital J, as does [2], and the Heritage Dictionary accepts both, though it lists the capitalised form first. Reverting. Prof Wrong (talk) 08:15, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Name

Seriously? Noone has ever told you, that this is Jaw's harp, and jew's harp is a name given mistakenly? 178.43.202.137 (talk) 19:12, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Where's your reliable source? DonIago (talk) 19:29, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. You didn't even get the neologism right. "Jew's Harp" predates "Jaw Harp." "Jaw's Harp" isn't even a thing (unless the fish from the movie can play an instrument). 67.4.197.220 (talk) 23:21, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Audio Examples

Just wondering.... why would wikipedia put childish examples of Jew's Harp playing as audio exemplars of the instrument? I almost want to demand a cite for that noise as being actually from a Jew's Harp.

Would you guys do the same for someone just banging keys on a piano or screeching on a violin?

There must be better recordings.

Just sayin'

108.26.153.137 (talk) 04:38, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Rather than simply criticizing what's here, why not provide better recordings? DonIago (talk) 13:18, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that IP guy's way of expressing the problem was not really helpful. I'm right now looking into getting some rights-free stuff here in Germany - but it might take a while ... --User:Haraldmmueller 13:34, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:NODEADLINE. Though I would say that if the audio recordings we have here really are as horrible as the IP is alleging than it might be better to remove them. I'm not going to make that call myself. Thanks for your efforts! DonIago (talk) 14:18, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

The Jew's harp is both a musical instrument and a toy. A toy being used as a toy doesn't seem inappropriate. Hyacinth (talk) 03:09, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Expression

This quotation is introduced without any context or explanation in the "Etymology" section. Can whoever added it integrate better into the article? It's just kind of there with no context or reason to be there:

Expression: "In endeavouring to illustrate a continuous strain of thought passing over a wide range of subject, one of my chief aims was diversity of form and variety of style; but there can be no doubt that versatility is always in danger of running into imitation. Play always on the Jew's harp, and no one will accuse you of imitating the tone of any other instrument. I do not pretend that my own instrument is an organ: but I would rather it should be the smallest harmonicum than the strongest and shrillest Jew's harp."[10]

- Verbmeister — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.174.203.65 (talk) 22:47, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Origin of the name

Since there has been discussion here of the (pejorative) name, I hope it might be useful to put down here what I added that was immediately removed:

and the sometimes used "Jew's trump", it has no connection with Jews or Judaism; it is rather so named because it is inexpensive, and in a standard anti-Semitic canard most seen in England, it is called Jewish because it's the sort of cheap instrument a miserly Jew would buy (and all Jews were miserly).

Yes, it's undocumented. If it matters, I'm Jewish. deisenbe (talk) 10:07, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Undocumented claims have no place on Wikipedia. To say that the instrument received it evidently anti-Semitic name for specific reasons, and that the "anti-Semitic canard" is "most seen in England" requires a reliable source or sources, and there are several well-documented (though inconclusive) explanations in this article for how the name may have come about, despite the fact that there is no established connection with Jews or Judaism. And, no, it does not matter whether either of us is Jewish. All Wikipedia editors are anonymous by design, and it is the requirement of Reliable sources that makes this collective anonymity possible.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 15:48, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

References

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Murchunga (Jew's Harp) on a stamp from Nepal.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:21, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

"Danish"

In the Etymology section, there's the sentence "This apparent error does not exist in other languages: in German, it sounds as "maultrommel," which roughly translates as "lip drum"; In Danish = jeudgtromp, etc.". The problem is that "Jeudgtromp" is not Danish, nor do I believe it to be any form of old danish. I cannot find any Danish sources ever listing this word, and as a native speaker of Danish I've never encountered this word. I am not gonna remove this line or this source, but I will say I strongly doubt the veracity of it. Nukleon (talk) 13:38, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I removed it, if there's actually a source for it someone can readd it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:03, 17 October 2021 (UTC)