Talk:Jethro Tull (band)/Archive 2

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The absolutely awful English in this article.

So it's obvious that this article has has a large contribution from someone who does not practice English as a first language. Should we try to correct all of these grammatical mistakes and awkward sentences or just restore this article to a previous version? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FrustratedGnome (talk • contribs) 23:57, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

I think the bigger problem is the article has been attacked by someone who thinks that Jethro Tull are zomg the best band EVER lol!!!11one1 and has defaced it with an atrocious point of view. There seems to be a lot of not very well cited references to blogs, which is also a major problem. The only good sources I have at home are David Rees' 1998 book and the extensive liner notes to the 20 Years box set, which will get us some of the way back to a half decent article. I saw the band once, in 2001, but sadly felt they were long past their prime when compared to, say, Van der Graaf Generator. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:59, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

I do agree. I am a very big Jethro Tull fan (especially their 60s/70s work), but Wikipedia is not the right place for personal opinion and recounting. Alex (TangerineFloyd) (talk) 03:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Stage show (moved from article)

Archived content
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
During the early 1970s, Jethro Tull went from being a progressive blues band to becoming one of the largest concert draws in the world. In concert, the band were known for theatrics and long medleys with brief instrumental interludes. Early days: Between hippies and tramps While early Jethro Tull shows featured a manic Anderson with bushy hair and beard dressed in tattered overcoats and ragged clothes, the other Jethro Tull band members also always developed dress-up and even stage personae. Bassist Glenn Cornick always appeared in waistcoat and headband. His successor Jeffrey Hammond, primarily dressed as an orchestra conductor, and eventually adopted a black-and-white diagonally striped suit (and similarly striped bass guitar, electric guitar, and string bass). It was a 'zebra look', and at one point a two-manned zebra came out excreting ping pong balls into the audience while both performers moved forcefully around their stage areas. Keyboard player John Evan dressed in an all-white suit with a neck-scarf of scarlet with white polka-dots; described as a "sad clown" type with extremely over-sized shoes, he joined in the theatrics by galumphing back and forth between Hammond organ and grand piano (placed on opposite sides of the stage in the Thick as a Brick tour) or by such sight-gags as pulling out a flask and pretending to drink from it during a rest in the music – the earliest image of this stage antic of Jon Evans can be seen in the sleeves of Aqualung. Barriemore Barlow's stage attire was a crimson tank-top and matching runner's shorts with rugby foot gear, and his solos were marked by smoke-machines and enormous drumsticks. He also wore a bucket hat. Martin Barre was the island of calm amongst the madmen, with Anderson (and sometimes Evan) crowding him and making faces during his solos. References Thick as a Brick The band's stage theatrics peaked during the Thick as a Brick tour, a performance distinguished by stage hands wearing the tan trench-coat/madras cap ensemble from the album art, extras in rabbit suits running across stage and an extended interlude, during which Barre and Barlow entered a beach-tent onstage and swapped pants. Even a phone call would interrupt the song, creating an absurd and Pythnesque atmosphere. The complexity of the concert today can only be glimpsed by the "Tull Press" page, in which frame by frame (almost skecthes) of the shows can be followed. References Passion Play A Passion Play was planned to have a full-length film to go with the stage theatrics. However, from this effort, it seems that only a few excerpts have survived to be re-released on recent commemorative videos of the band, including the intro and outro clips, besides the expansive interlude "The Story of the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles". Although the critics did not seem to enjoy the bands performance on the theatrical effort, a huge apparatus were made to complete the complexity of the concept's albuns, which caught the fans apreciation, selling out almost all of their shows. References Medieval, Rock Heroes and Folk Acts The previous efforts culminated with the War Child tour's over-sized codpiece and colourful costume – as can be seen in the back cover of the album. The Minstrel in the Gallery too continued with the medieval dressed band (Anderson as a medieval minstrel), besides a string quartet on the concerts and even explosions on the War Child title track. Former Carmen bassist John Glascock, when joined the band, later, also wore flamboyant clothes on stage, most of which he sewed himself. A multi-media effort had been planned for Too Old to Rock and Roll... but was not completed; the band in 1976 wore the most flamboyant "rock'n roll" fashion, to combine with the album idea. Anderson often dressed as a country squire on tours in the late 1970s, with the rest of the band adopting the style during their folk phase – as can be seen in their presentation of Hammersmith Odeon, of 1977 (with Barlow dressed as a Scotsman, and Glascock as a countrymen), and the Songs From the Wood sleeve. Later days The emphasis on theatrics was reduced but never eliminated. The A tour (1980) featured the same white jumpsuit uniforms worn by the band on the album cover. In 1982's Broadsword and the Beast concerts, the entire stage was transformed into a Viking ship. Certain routines from the 1970s have become ensconced in concerts, such as having a song interrupted by a phone call for an audience member (which Anderson now takes on a cell) and the climactic conclusion of shows including bombastic instrumentals and the giant balloons, which Anderson would carry over his head and toss into the crowd. In 1992, Jethro Tull embarked on a tour titled A Little Light Music, with most of the show focusing on acoustic songs, many of which they had not played live for years, if at all. A live CD was recorded on this tour and released under the same title later in that year. This was well received by fans because of its different takes on many past compositions, as well as a rendition of the folk song "John Barleycorn". As documented by these live performances, Ian's voice had clearly improved since his vocal cord injury in the mid-Eighties. After the CD release, the tour continued as a show of two-halves, the Light and Dark Tour. 1993 was the 25th Anniversary of Jethro Tull, a year in which the band released various new products and embarked on an extensive Anniversary Tour which started in May 1993 and lasted nearly a year. In keeping with the anniversary theme, this tour revived a number of older songs. The 25th Anniversary Box was a four-CD set including new and vintage live recordings, remixed and remastered songs from earlier albums, and re-recordings of old songs by the 1990s band. A two-CD Anniversary Collection compilation was also released, containing original tracks remastered, and a video collection included new interviews, promo videos and archive material. The remixed single, Living in the (Slightly more Recent) Past, reached No. 32 in the UK singles chart. A planned second boxed set of outtakes and rare tracks was scaled down to two discs and released towards the end of the year under the title Nightcap (1993). In 2006, Jethro Tull performed at Indian Institute of Management Bangalore's (IIM-B) cultural fest Unmaad in India. "In the last 10 years we have seen India blossom in the eyes of the West. We eagerly wait to see the latest offing from Bollywood or the Indian rock bands", Anderson said after the performance. Jethro Tull's 2008 tour, celebrating 40 years of the band, included many older songs as well as guest appearances from former band members and others. Jethro Tull and sitarist Anoushka Shankar postponed a concert scheduled for 29 November 2008 in Mumbai after the November 2008 Mumbai attacks. They reorganised the performance as A Billion Hands Concert, a benefit concert for victims of the attacks, and held it on 5 December 2008. Ian Anderson commented on this decision stating that: "Some people might consider it disrespectful that we are having a concert but hopefully a majority will realise what this is about and what it says." Jethro Tull's 2010 concert tour took them to Austria, Germany, Greece, Israel, Italy, Norway and Switzerland in July and August, Armenia and the UK in September and Ian toured an acoustic solo tour in North America during October–November. They announced a tour of North America in June 2011 in honour of the Aqualung album's 40th anniversary. At every show on this tour, the band played the Aqualung album in its entirety, however not in order. They scheduled four concerts in Australia in April 2011, the band's first since 2005. These consisted of two performances at Sydney's State Theatre, one at Melbourne's Palais Theatre, and one at the Byron Bay Bluesfest, alongside headliner Bob Dylan. References

Er why move uncontentious content out of an article onto the talk page just because you have personality issues? What is your problem? Are Tull going to sue because they didn't play Austria, Germany, or Greece in 2010? Or they didn't wear white jumps suits on a 1980s tour? Wikipedia is about information; just because you don't like the tone or its purpose doesn't mean it's factually incorrect and should be deleted wholesale. As far I can see, the deleted material above is just a synopsis of the band's touring history: when, where and how. However I am not a typical Wiki editor ie mostly single white males who like to "promote their values or because they feel more comfortable expressing their personalities online" (eg character disorders). So I don't go deleting large swathes of article for the sake of I don't like it! I think you should respect others and allow them to make their own judgements on information. And not be told what they cannot read because it's deemed by you to be "mostly unsourced original research". Well most articles on WP contain unsourced original research, so you'd better get started. However taking that sanctimonious route leads you right back to me first point. 81.132.175.24 (talk) 12:27, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

It hasn't been deleted, just parked here while we work out what to do with it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:38, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Now I understand why there's little mention of their stage shows. I would encourage those working on this issue to find a way to place the info into the article as I think it is appropriate to do so. Enjoyed what I've read so far as the article is well done. Kudos to the folks doing the work!THX1136 (talk) 16:36, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Poor referencing and poor English from Brazilian IPs

I can see by the threads above titled "The absolutely awful English in this article" and "Stage show (moved from article)" that people have been having trouble with the expansion of this article ever since April 2014 when it came under the attention of someone in Brazil using various IP addresses. I agree with the concerns, and I have joined Radiopathy, Ritchie333, Escape Orbit, Howenstein115 and others in correcting or reverting this person's work. I removed 10 kb of stuff, which is a lot.

The trouble comes from a combination of poor English skills and the reliance on fansite transcripts of articles published in other media. The fansite transcripts are not reliable so I have removed a bunch of links, especially to Tull Press which seems favoured by this person.

Here are some of the IPs that have been involved:

• Special:Contributions/186.223.188.215
• Special:Contributions/186.223.186.130
• Special:Contributions/179.219.67.249
• Special:Contributions/179.219.64.155
• Special:Contributions/179.219.73.75
• Special:Contributions/179.219.64.138
• Special:Contributions/179.219.67.203
• Special:Contributions/179.219.70.241
• Special:Contributions/179.219.73.71
• Special:Contributions/179.219.70.184
• Special:Contributions/179.219.66.86
• Special:Contributions/179.219.72.161
• Special:Contributions/179.219.71.152
• Special:Contributions/179.219.64.188

As you can see by clicking on a few of these links, this person has been all over Wikipedia on Tull-related articles. There is clearly a lot of cleanup work for us to do, and a call for continued vigilance, keeping alert for poor contributions. Binksternet (talk) 06:18, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

A very serious problem that the Brazilian editor is guilty of: copyright violation. At the Martin Barre biography, I just removed a bunch of text pasted from http://jethrotull.com/martin-barre-bio/. Same with Minstrel in the Gallery and http://jethrotull.com/?portfolio=minstrel-in-the-gallery. Please be on the lookout for text copied from websites. Binksternet (talk) 09:21, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

I started picking through the article and sourcing to books. There's nothing comparable to Revolution in the Head or Dave Marsh's book on the Who, but there are a couple of books which I can at least trust to be factually correct. I got up to about 1971 and had to take a break from it. I've listed it on Today's article for improvement which would hopefully get a response. Band articles need to be accessible to non-fans. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:38, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for this series of edits in early August where you brought in the Rabey and the Rees books. You also removed a lot of unnecessary fawning fluff from the article.

Another good source to use would be Nollen's Jethro Tull: A History of the Band, 1968–2001. Nollen has lots of good analysis along with usefully juicy detail such as how the film-makers producing This Is Spinal Tap were partly inspired by Jethro Tull.

The Macan book Rocking the Classics: English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture would be a fine reference for comparing Tull to other bands such as Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Yes, Pentangle, etc.

For pure drumming analysis, Lackowski's book On the Beaten Path, Progressive Rock briefly describes the contribution of Tull's drummer Barriemore Barlow to the band as a whole.

Another good reference to use would be the Hegarty/Halliwell book Beyond and Before: Progressive Rock since the 1960s which also discusses Tull in context. This book says Tull influenced other bands such as the Chinese proggers Cold Fairyland. This book describes a little bit of Tull's theatrical stage presence, which I know has been a disputed subject here because of poor sourcing. Binksternet (talk) 15:44, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

I'll start picking through the books. And sadly, while I was taking a break from this, one of my favourite bassists Glenn Cornick, who's brilliant playing on the first three albums passed away, so I'm glad I got all of the article that deals with him up to scratch :-( Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:28, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Binksternet and Ritchie333 thank you very much for all your work; I wish I had the time to help you more.Alex (TangerineFloyd) (talk) 05:31, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Three albums described as trilogy, trio or triad?

Some fansites describe three of Tull's albums as something of a folk rock series: Songs from the Wood, Heavy Horses, and Stormwatch. I wonder whether we should repeat this idea, or whether it is not important enough. Other sources (books) describe Stormwatch as taking a different path than the previous two albums, and book authors often describe Tull's albums in pairs, for instance Songs from the Wood and Heavy Horses are a light/dark pair of folk rockers, while Stand Up and Benefit are another light/dark pair of hard rockers.

What I would like to know is whether somebody significant has categorized the three albums as coming in a series, having a shared theme. Who was the first person to publish this idea? Binksternet (talk) 15:44, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I think of all their studio albums divided into groups of three: This Was/Stand Up/Benefit (the early albums), Aqualung/Thick As Brick/A Passion Play (the concept albums), War Child/Minstrel In The Gallery/Too Old To Rock n' Roll (the rockier albums), Songs From The Wood/Heavy Horses/Stormwatch (the Folk-Rock albums), A/Broadsword/Under Wraps (the electronic experiment albums), Crest Of A Knave/Rock Island/Catfish Rising (the return-to-rock-roots albums) and Roots To Branches/J-Tull Dot Com/The Jethro Tull Christmas Album (the terribly boring albums). I didn't read this anywhere, but this is how they're organized in my head. However, that can barely be the rule. There are Folk-Rock songs in Minstrel In The Gallery, too, and other albums. And Stormwatch has a general feel that is very much like 'A'. So, I'm not so sure we could include this in the main article, unless you can find a good source (Jethro Tull themselves or someone who is well-known) that we can quote from.Alex (TangerineFloyd) (talk) 05:48, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I doubt very much that the anyone in the group ever intended for any of the records to be grouped together. The thing that struck me, though, is that for the first five albums there was exactly one change in personnel per album. By the end of this period Ian Anderson appeared to have fully consolidated complete control of the group and membership remained stable for several years afterward. TheScotch (talk) 07:28, 12 April 2015 (UTC)