Talk:Jerry Falwell Jr./Archive 1

Archive 1

Off topic tags

The growth of Liberty U and supporting bond sale sections certainly belong in the Liberty University article. But what Falwell was doing in support of the growth/bond sales was not so remarkable. He was doing what any lawyer would do for his/her client. Including these activities is merely bolstering a non-notable BLP. --S. Rich (talk) 20:44, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Falwell was not merely a lawyer, but the head administrator at the institution. Do you find this to still be off topic? It seems like these achievements of the university are his legac at the institution and encyclopedic in nature. 71.254.94.170 (talk) 22:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I submit that Liberty University is the best place for the information. (The info is there, but not well presented.) Moreover, there are many people who are lawyers and who are head administrators, but that does not make them notable. (And thanks for your comment.) --S. Rich (talk) 22:14, 12 February 2011 (UTC)22:15, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Portrait-picture

A portrait picture (and any action pictures) improve an article. Where's the picture? -- AstroU (talk) 12:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Support for concealed carry permits

This is not an unreasonable statement. He knows not everyone there will adhere.

Headline-1: LIBERTY PRESIDENT CALLS FOR AN ARMED CHRISTIAN CAMPUS

• http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_LIBERTY_UNIVERSITY_GUNS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-05-12-15-39

QUOTE: "Let's teach them a lesson if they ever show up here." -- AstroU (talk) 12:18, 6 December 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI, New NEWS today, for future editing.

I changed the title in this Talk section as the other was inaccurate. Wikipedia is not a newspaper. This off-handed statement at convocation has not proven to be encyclopedic. There has only been one day of coverage and already the story is loosing interest. Additionally, the paragraph as currently written is non-neutral with slippery and misleading statements. The neither the content nor the paragraph are encyclopedic. Wolfy54 (talk) 19:22, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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The archive leads to a "robots.txt" error. I will change the archive to another one, if one can be found. -- Gestrid (talk) 01:00, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Reaction to Trump video

I do not think this section is appropriate to this article. The controversial part of the story only involves Trump. Saying that Trump should be forgiven is not controversial. University Presidents deny opinion pieces in student newspapers all the time, especially if the topic is already being covered elsewhere in the paper. Having alumni and students disagree with university leadership is commonplace. The "petition" is a Google Doc with some email addresses. Given that Liberty has 100,000+ annual student enrollment, it is not even a large amount of names. Falwell is a university president; endorsement of a political candidate is not unusual or controversial. He is not a pastor and never claimed to be one. Futhermore, it ends up dominating the page, which is unfortunate given that this is the page of a university president with 100,000+ enrollment and hundreds of millions of dollars in building projects, infrastructure upgrades and campus growth. This section should be deleted as giving undue coverage to an issue that is not encyclopedic for Jerry Falwell Jr. Wolfy54 (talk) 17:35, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

• We should keep the section because the unofficial student group "Liberty United Against Trump" (which I'd like to make clear I am not a part of, even though I have a declared COI with LU and Falwell) has received significant coverage, including coverage from TIME, among others (Here's a Google News search.). The part about the school newspaper should be kept because "Liberty United Against Trump" became involved in that incident. I do think the section could be better-written, but it should stay in the article. (And this isn't me shooting you down, Wolfy54. This is me casting my not-vote.) — Gestrid (talk) 19:04, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

I have notified the WikiProjects listed at the top of this talk page of this discussion, and I believe I have done it as neutrally as possible. I have not notified individual editors of this discussion. — Gestrid (talk) 22:15, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

• Keep -- I believe the section should stay, as the subject chose to go on national TV to talk about the topic, and thus was covered by the media. There’s more to the story that involves the students of the university, which also got coverage. Student protest is generally a notable topic as it directly impacts the image and the career of the heads of the institution.

The problem of balance can be solved by adding RS citations on other aspects of his career. But for now it appears that the subject is more notable for his political views, rather his stewardship of the University. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:41, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

• Remove -- My reasons are stated in the opening paragraph and still stand. No way should a reaction to a video dominate this page. He is way more important than this. If we want to included it, then we need about 2000 more words discussing his impact on the university, on the region, on politics, etc. By including this on such a small BLP page, it gives it undue weight.Wolfy54 (talk) 19:53, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

• Remove - Serious NPOV violations in an article about a living conservative figure and friend to Donald Trump. A lot of these articles use a very small amount of students joining online groups and other non issues and make a big opinionated article. AlaskanNativeRU (talk) 08:58, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Names of Children ?

Please put in the names of his kids. Also, I'm looking at a photo of his family on twitter. It looks to me like one of his daughters-in-law may be mixed race. This seems significant, because there are memes circulating alleging that he is racist. It would be nice to have more information about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skysong263 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Other articles reviewers seem to be systematically removing the names of the children in articles unless they have their own Wikipedia articles or are otherwise 'in the news' on their own terms. MaynardClark (talk) 17:26, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Views on homosexuality

Please discuss. Chrisdevelop (talk) 02:55, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

@Chrisdevelop: No, the Frontline interview, being an interview, is by definition a WP:PRIMARY source. You have added original interpretation of said interview to this article by saying that Falwell "appeared to support conversion therapy", and you have also editorialized somewhat by implying some of his statements (on conversion therapy and violence against gay people) are contradictory. That's not acceptable; per WP:OR, Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability and to avoid novel interpretations of primary sources. All analyses and interpretive or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary or tertiary source, and must not be an original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors (emphasis mine). GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:58, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I see that you have edited the conversion therapy portion to: [Falwell] said that "ex-gays" had said, "They believe that they chose in and they chose out." I don't think it's clear at all what that this is meant to be conveying.

There is also original research in saying that Falwell Jr. was echoing his father's views on homosexuality; that is not in the source. GorillaWarfare (talk) 03:42, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Second or 4th president?

https://www.liberty.edu/news/2019/07/18/dr-a-pierre-guillermin-remembered-as-founding-leader-and-cherished-friend/ On Tuesday, July 16, 2019, Dr. A. Pierre Guillermin passed away at the age of 82. Dr. Guillermin served as President of Liberty University from 1971 to 1996 and as President Emeritus since his retirement in 1996

https://www.liberty.edu/news/2020/08/25/liberty-university-board-accepts-jerry-falwell-jr-s-resignation-as-president/ Falwell was the fourth president of Liberty University, assuming the role after his father, Liberty founder Dr. Jerry Falwell, Sr., passed away in 2007. antony.trupe (talk) 14:57, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

 Fixed Thanks! GorillaWarfare (talk) 15:16, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Self-contradiction

The lead section contradicts the infobox as to the date of Falwell's departure from his Liberty University post. The lead correctly states that he resigned on Aug. 25, while the infobox incorrectly lists the date as Aug. 24. 24.29.56.240 (talk) 23:12, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

 Fixed GorillaWarfare (talk) 23:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Second Accuser in the Jerry Falwell Jr's and Becki Sexual Misconduct allegations

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/27/becki-falwell-affair-liberty-university-student-band-jerry-402559

According to this Politico article there are reports of a second accuser saying that there was a sexual misconduct allegation from 2008 and the accuser at the time was 22. This allegation describes Becki Falwell grabbing the male parts of the accuser. 73.71.164.202 (talk) 00:40, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

From what I'm seeing, this accusation only involves Jerry Falwell's wife, and there are no allegations being made against him. This article would not be a good place to include this information, and Becki Falwell does not have an article of her own. GorillaWarfare (talk) 01:02, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Name of the pool attendant

Starting a thread here and pinging Keizers to discuss the inclusion of the name of the pool attendant. While it has been published by reliable sources (namely Reuters), I'm not convinced we ought to include it. Per WP:BLPNAME: Caution should be applied when identifying individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event. When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. When deciding whether to include a name, its publication in secondary sources other than news media, such as scholarly journals or the work of recognized experts, should be afforded greater weight than the brief appearance of names in news stories. Consider whether the inclusion of names of living private individuals who are not directly involved in an article's topic adds significant value. (emphasis mine). I don't see any compelling reason to add his name, and the policy instructs that we should err on the side of caution/privacy. GorillaWarfare (talk) 04:47, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't believe including his name would be a violation of WP:BLP since his name has been widely disseminated and he doesn't seem to mind. However, I don't think the article gains much by including the name of an otherwise non-notable person. - MrX 🖋 13:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

The entire section on the affair with the pool attendant is salacious gossip and should be removed. While the information is indeed well-sourced, it reads like tabloid fodder and detracts from the overall article. Even though information on his and his wife's sexual relationship with the poolboy is now widely accessibly on the internet, presenting non-criminal, personal bedroom preferences (that he hasn't chose to reveal to the public, that appears to have been released as blackmail) doesn't fit in as notable biographical information. The Futurist Corporation (talk) 16:01, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Whatever importance you might ascribe to the affair/relationship, it seems like it is a highly likely cause for the entire downfall of Fallwell, Jr.'s career. Or at least, one of a few reasons, the others being perhaps, alcoholism, corruption, perceived perversion from a Baptist perspective, hypocrisy in attacking others' morality from a position of authority, and so forth. But certainly the sexual acts themselves were important in a cause-and-effect context.Keizers (talk) 16:08, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

@Futuristcorporation: I don't think it's possible for the article to describe the events of August 24 (reported resignation, withdrawal of resignation, etc.) without mentioning the affair, as all reliable sources I've seen are tying the two events. Personally I think the current section is doing a decent job of balancing providing the information that is relevant to Mr. Falwell (that there was an affair, and that he was allegedly personally aware of/participated in it) without going into unnecessary or salacious detail. GorillaWarfare (talk) 16:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I could see excluding his name if he only served as their escort. But he was much more than that - before reporting of their throuple, he was described as a business associate. So its not a passing sexual dalliance, but something more substantial. And yes, also has been widely reported in some detail in dozens of RS. Bangabandhu (talk) 21:32, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Reporting varies a bit on that. At least according to the Falwells, he was only "'offered a share' in the Alton Hostel venture because he lived in Miami and would act as a manager" ([1]). Before the reporting of the affair, he was not mentioned in this article at all, so the choice to add the name to this article at least seems to mostly be due to the affair. My 2¢, anyway. I don't have an incredibly strong opinion either way, and could probably argue either side, but I do want to be sure we're being careful with respect to BLP. GorillaWarfare (talk) 22:18, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

That's true. Though I think those guidelines are to protect the identity and prevent publicity of individuals who request it (When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated...). This guy posted for a photoshoot with Reuters and did nothing that suggests he's seeking privacy. Bangabandhu (talk) 14:16, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians - I just created a redirect for the name of the person involved pointing to the subsection for 2020 controversy, and did not read this discussion until after I created it. If that redirect needs to be deleted, temporarily or otherwise, I would understand, and I can go with whatever the consensus is here. KConWiki (talk) 23:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Name is not relevant at all, but the actual events that caused the subjects resignation are of course relevant to the article? I literally cant see any reason anyone would say they were not without a POV bias? I think the editors on this article have been first class, it has been added in a professional manner, with all sources listed. Plus they have protected the page while this plays out. A big well done from me! 2A00:23C4:201:5F00:AC57:F29D:C08F:85A1 (talk) 09:55, 28 August 2020 (UTC) PS can anyone tell me what these curly lines are called and where they are on an average keyboard!? New to Wiki much

Sorry signed in now, plus how do I indent? Giant-Dwarfs (talk) 10:03, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

@Giant-Dwarfs: Thanks for your feedback on this subject. The curly lines are tildes. On my keyboard (US QWERTY) they are produced by hitting shift-`, with the ` key located directly below the escape key. As for indentation, if you begin the line with a colon (:), it will indent your comment. Each colon you add will indent it one level further. GorillaWarfare (talk) 15:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Gorillawarfare, much appreciated! Not really the place to ask for such as help as I now realise, but very helpful indeedGiant-Dwarfs talk 15:52, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-falwell-endorsement/trumps-ex-lawyer-cohen-links-falwells-endorsement-in-2016-to-suppression-of-racy-photos-idUSKBN25Z2S0

https://www.foxnews.com/us/giancarlo-granda-claims-falwell-jr-as-been-relentlessly-harassing-him-since-sex-scandal-broke

Here is more on the Jerry Falwell allegations involving the Pool Boy as of September 2020 2601:640:C600:3C20:C11:2D92:48AB:C99C (talk) 17:48, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Racist tweet?

This article is yet another reason why Wikipedia is an incredibly biased source, to the point of not reflecting the actual state of reality or actual events. The article describes Falwell as posting a "racist tweet," with the clear insinuation that Falwell had racist intentions with the tweet. A *cursory* investigation of the linked article, and the NPR article linked from *that* article, indicates that Falwell's tweet showed the governor in "blackface." The governor was the object of the tweet. The Tweet was not a "racist tweet," and to the contrary was attempting to use the governor's history of blackface in an attempt to *discredit* the governor.

I'm not even a fan of Falwell, but that should not and does not matter when it comes to reporting accurately and honestly. Especially when it comes to a living person.

I used to love Wikipedia, and I've always donated to this site. Even though I still consider it to be a wonderful idea, it's clearly saturated with idealogical bias and dishonesty. It's such a damn shame. Edsanville (talk) 20:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

@Edsanville: Can you be specific as to which sentence (or sentences) you're taking issue with? You can just copy/paste it here if that's easiest. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 21:09, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Politico

search: Jerry Falwell Brandon Ambrosino site:politico.com

0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 06:24, 6 November 2022 (UTC)