Talk:Jean-Baptiste de La Salle

Latest comment: 2 years ago by Piperh in topic Name in Latin?

Name in Latin?

edit

I am trying to find and translate his name into latin. I would appreciate any help.--Jondel 01:03, 22 March 2006 (UTC)Reply

The pedestal of his founder's statue in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome has the spelling IO BAPT DE LA SALLE. Without the abbreviations and in sentence case, this would be Iohannes Baptista de La Salle. See http://www.stpetersbasilica.info/Statues/Founders/JohnBaptistdelaSalle/John%20de%20la%20Salle.htm Piperh (talk) 18:00, 9 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Need of cleanup

edit

Sorry, I have no time, but this needs to be cleaned, it reads like a high school biography. Not as good as Wikipedia deserves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.114.130.101 (talk) 05:40, 7 August 2008 (UTC)Reply

I have cut it right back. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

Capitalization in La Salle

edit

His name is spelt "de La Salle" and not "de la Salle", "de" in French meaning "of". He is "Jean-Baptiste of La Salle", not "of la Salle". We should consider creating a new page with the correct capitalization and direct this page there, or delete it completely. -- S Masters (talk) 07:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

you do realise you could just edit the capitals in you don't have to radirect the whole page. Alienboxer13 (talk) 15:54, 14 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Requested move

edit
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 20:22, 10 March 2010 (UTC)Reply


Jean-Baptiste de la SalleJean-Baptiste de La Salle — "La" needs to be capitalized. It is currently incorrect. He is Jean-Baptiste of La Salle S Masters (talk) 14:09, 24 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

Survey

edit
Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Discussion

edit
Any additional comments:

Which La Salle is he of? There are 8 in France. Do we have references? Being a teacher, "de la Salle" ("of the room") would not be entirely strange. --Closeapple (talk) 09:02, 28 February 2010 (UTC)Reply

According to the Italian Wikipedia version of this page, he was born into nobilty, the firstborn of lawyer Louis de La Salle and Nicole de Moet de Brouillet. Importantly, the entire Italian version spells his name as "de La Salle". Looking at all the official websites, they all spell his name as "de La Salle". However, the version from the Catholic Encyclopedia spells his name "de la Salle" throughout. My guess is that the original work to move parts of that body of work to Wikipedia resulted in this spelling. It does not mean that their version is correct. This is especially true when all official websites related to him spell it consistently with a capital L. -- S Masters (talk) 14:41, 28 February 2010 (UTC)Reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

more information about free school

edit

i really think someone should put in more info about rhe free school like the subjects french (literacy for them) i have found a good source that someone can use. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08444a.htm Alienboxer13 (talk) 16:02, 14 October 2013 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 2

edit
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 22:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)Reply

Jean-Baptiste de La SalleJohn Baptist de La Salle – Move to match the name to the most common form in the English language sources, as shown in the entry on him in the Catholic Encyclopedia given above, per the MOS. Relisted. BDD (talk) 18:19, 19 November 2013 (UTC) Daniel the Monk (talk) 23:12, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Reply

  • Oppose - sorry but a 1910 source, as any website referencing it, fails WP:RS as a reliable source. Note an academic source, Wanner (1975) "No survey of French education in the seventeenth century would be complete without reference to the educational work of Jean-Baptiste de La Salle." Per WP:CRITERIA of Recognisability Precision and Consistency, we do not usually give English translated personal names to 17th Century French people. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:25, 9 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
Incidentally, I'm not sure what "MOS" is being referred to, certainly WP:FRMOS does not say to anglicize French people. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:38, 9 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
I fail to see how the date of a major English-language academic work fails to be a reliable source, since the MOS to which you refer makes no mention of that as a criterion. I would think that it is to the contrary, as it shows my suggested form of his name in English as having already being established a century ago. But additionally there are various citations available on the English-language websites of the religious order he founded, such as that of the Brothers worldwide, [1], as well as in the United States,[2] and the U.K.[3] Also this is the form of his name used in general English-language Church sources.[4], and for publications both of his writings and about him.[5][6] Further, it is the form used for a movie about his life.[7] The use by one author you cite clearly does not show the "most common" form in English-language sources indicated by the MOS.
The MOS to which I refer is, of course, WP:ENGLISH, with whom I am sure you are familiar. Daniel the Monk (talk) 20:14, 11 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
Please indent. The MOS for French bios is MOS:FR
The reason 100-year old reference works are not considered reliable when modern works are available is because this is 2013, I'm not sure any further justification is required. The name of the schools should be excluded from searches. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:02, 20 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
The WP:ENGLISH says nothing about dates. Further, an encyclopedia is clearly a reliable source per WP:Reliable sources. Again, the fact that the form I am proposing has been in use for 100 years shows provenance for the English form. Additionally, the other works I have given as references are modern. So I don't see the basis for your comments. I agree with you about the schools, but only because they do not show his first name. Daniel the Monk (talk) 00:54, 21 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • I can't really recall. However, from the article, the sole book in "Further reading" apparently uses "Jean Baptist" (? No Baptiste?). The internet links seem more split, though. I've downgraded to a weak oppose. SnowFire (talk) 17:30, 12 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • From the ngram link below, switching to an abstain. Not sure if John Baptist really is more common or this is some quirk of Google ngrams.
How is this relevant to the bio? And obviously they do, yes, but do those sources count as independent? What do independent sources call him? All the independent sources in the article use French names from French people. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:01, 20 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • User:Red Slash: I think you stumbled across a quirk of GBooks, those results are way too high. If you add "Jean-Jacques Rousseau" to your query above, you'll see almost the same graph, but a tad smaller - in other words, you were graphing occurrences of "Jean" that do NOT include Baptiste de la Salle. The line for Rosseau is marginally less, which makes sense as he's better known.
I'm not sure this query is accurate, but skipping the dash, "John Baptist" wins, barely. Although I'm not sure that all the Jean-Baptistes are properly translated to "Jean Baptistes" so this win may be illusory. Ugh, impossible to say. Switching to an abstain, myself.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Jean+Baptiste+de+La+Salle%2CJohn+Baptist+de+La+Salle%2CJean-Jacques+Rousseau&year_start=1808&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CJean%20Baptiste%20de%20La%20Salle%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CJohn%20Baptist%20de%20La%20Salle%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CJean%20-%20Jacques%20Rousseau%3B%2Cc0 SnowFire (talk) 01:19, 20 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
Hi, can you please take the schools out of that search? What do modern sources unconnected with the organisation call him? In ictu oculi (talk) 07:01, 20 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
Ngrams containing "The characters +, -, *, / require parentheses to be interpreted as a composition": Like this walk victor falk talk 04:27, 29 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Title

edit

The title of this article is Jean-Baptiste de La Salle (with a dash between Jean and Baptiste and with an "e" at the end of Baptiste). However, within the article, his name is given without the dash and without the "e". Which is correct? Shouldn't the article employ his name in a consistent manner throughout? Any thoughts? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 20:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

edit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Jean-Baptiste de La Salle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 04:56, 26 February 2016 (UTC)Reply

Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools

edit

There appears to be some duplication in this short section - it starts "De La Salle thereby began a new religious institute, the first one with no priests at all among its members: ..." and ends with "The De La Salle Brothers were the first Roman Catholic teaching religious institute that did not include any priests."

Could I suggest: "De La Salle thereby began a new religious institute: the Institute of the Brothers of the Christian Schools ... Irish Christian Brothers.) Thus the De La Salle Brothers were the first Roman Catholic teaching religious institute that did not include any priests."

Haynesta (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:13, 25 February 2017 (UTC)Reply

General

edit

There is inconsistency with the spelling of the French city of Reims. In four places this appears as Rheims.

Cheers Haynesta (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:17, 25 February 2017 (UTC)Reply

This has been fixed for now, accepting the "Reims" spelling used (consistently) in the WP article about the city. Piperh (talk) 17:50, 9 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
edit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Jean-Baptiste de La Salle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:24, 23 November 2017 (UTC)Reply