Talk:Japanese serow

"not in the same infraclass" ???

Both the serow and the deer are in order artiodactyla, even-toed ungulates. What do you mean by "not in the same infraclass"??? Please clarify and/or correct. Dr Dima (talk) 21:11, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Classification

Binomial classification appears to be disputed. Which will it be? Stepp-Wulf 03:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC).

It doesn't appear to be disputed anymore. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:53, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

-山地

I can't find an offical translation of -山地 when used in e.g. 関東山地, but this seems to translate it as "Kanto Mountains", so I'm going to follow that. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:04, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Japanese serow/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sasata (talk · contribs) 23:58, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I'll review this article. Comments in a few days. Sasata (talk) 23:58, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok, some comments to get us started: Sasata (talk) 04:10, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

• I don't think Japanese is a necessary link in the lead (especially twice!)
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• link conservation areas; marks its territory; Least Concern
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• please give the synonym authorities and years in the taxobox; a source for the "synonyms_ref" parameter would be good too
  • Done, I think, though I'm not confident I haven't screwed it up. There were more than one ref, so I didn't use the "synonyms_ref" parameter. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

The parameter accepts multiple citations, so I added it there. Sasata (talk) 17:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Phylogenetically Capricornis is closer to goats and sheep than cattle." please link goats, sheep, cattle – they are relevant links when discussing phylogenetic relationships. What is the basis of this purported phylogenetic closeness, is it based on DNA sequences (if so, what genes/DNA regions?) or morphology, or both? This PMID 15179056 paper looks like it might have some more information about this
  • Based on "Serum protein components", according to Jass & Mead. I've used the paper you linked to for the comparison of serows and gorals, but it didn't have anything to say about sheep, goats, or cattle. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• "There is some uncertainty about the publication date; it may have been 1845." According to Mammalian Species of the World (listed in External links; would be good to use this as a source instead), it was published in 1836; might it be possible to track down this original publication and add it as a citation?
  • I've changed it (using Tokida and MSW as refs). It bugs me though, because I found a pdf of the work cited, and I can't find mention of it in there (the PDF's not searchable, though, so I could easily have just missed it). Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:48, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm, investigating further, this 2011 source by Groves and Grubb say the basionym should be attributed to Radde in 1862, not Temminck 1845. Have you come across this in any of your sources? Sasata (talk) 17:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

This (Mead 1989) says Radde mistook N. g. caudatus (a goral) for C. crispus in 1862: "Radde (1862) incorrectly supposed his animal to be the same as the Japanese "Antilope crispa" (=Capricornis). Radde's specimen is the type of N. g. caudatus." Curly Turkey (gobble) 20:14, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• what about the synonyms pryer, pryerianus, and saxicola, listed in MSW?
  • Done. I don't see this in MSW, but they're talked about in Jass & Mead. Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:03, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• link canine
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:48, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• I think the listing of other Capricornis species may be out of place here in the species article
  • Removed. Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:49, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "A handful of researchers" avoid idiomatic expressions in encyclopaedic prose
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• what is the etymology of the specific name crispa?
  • I'm not having any luck tracking this one down ... Curly Turkey (gobble) 09:41, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

It means "curled", but I can only find botanical sources for this. If you're ok with using a botanical source (like this, but there's lots on Google Books if you can't see that one) for an article on a mammal, it might be worthwhile to include this. Sasata (talk) 17:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

I had found what the traslation was, but I assumed I needed a source in the context of C. crispus. That's not the case? Curly Turkey (gobble) 20:17, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

It's best to find a context-specific explanation of the etymology, but this would be acceptable if you can't. Just word it carefully (e.g. The specific epithet crispa is derived from the Latin word for "curled".)

• "In Japan, the serow is widely thought of as a kind of deer" perhaps we should clarify that despite this, it's not closely related to deer (not even in the same infraclass)
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• "The Japanese serow (Capricornis crispus, previously Naemorhedus crispus;[1] Japanese: kamoshika)" why is this all repeated in the appearance and anatomy section?
  • Removed. Probably a result of moving sections around or something. Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• "that stands about 81 centimetres (32 in)[9] and weighs" missing "tall"?
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• the colouring does not appear to be uniform over the body; the taxobox image shows darker legs and black ears, but these distinctions are not mentioned in the text
  • One of my sources suggests Abe et al (2005) 日本の哺乳類 (Mammals of Japan, ISBN 978-4-486-01802-5) might have something to say about this. They've got a couple copies in my city's library system, so I've put in a request for the book. I hope they've made a mistake in the catalogue listing, though—it says the book is 16,206 pages long! Curly Turkey (gobble) 04:10, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
    • No luck. I picked up a few other books as well. All the sources I have that mention colour only say what the range of colours is, but nothing about differences between legs and body (although I added a source that mentions the white neck). Curly Turkey (gobble) 03:35, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
• "Differences between the sexes are not well developed;[1] researchers use genitalia and sexual behaviour to distinguish them;[12] females have two pairs of mammae." I'd suggest replacing that first semicolon with ", and"
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:16, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• why are horn measurements given in mm when the consistent cm would work fine?
  • Changed to cm. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• this PMID 19267649 article might be able to help expand the current single sentence about diet
• what does the morphology of the forestomach say about its feeding habits? PMID 9591368
  • I haven't been able to find copies of the above two articles that I can access. Curly Turkey (gobble) 03:47, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• link endemic, temperate deciduous forest, coniferous forest, alpine meadow, Population density, cedar, monogamous, courtship ritual, gestation, prefecture, reforestation
  • Done. ("prefecture" was already earlier linked to [[Prefectures of Japan|prefectures]]. Curly Turkey (gobble) 09:41, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• any chance of a range map?
  • I actually put out a request for that at the Graphics Lab, with links to a book with such a map. Nobody responded, and it was archived. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "15 hectares (25–37 {{{u}}})" something needs fixing here
  • The syntax I'm using is {{convert|10|–|15|ha|acre}}, which is correct as far as I can tell. I've left a message on the {{convert}} talk page. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
    • It appears there's an actual problem with the template, and that it'll likely be fixed soon. Curly Turkey (gobble) 07:42, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• "as it has wide distribution" are 4 island in Japan considered a "wide" distribution?
  • Japan is made up of four main islands, so you don't get much wider distribution than that. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I read it as wide distribution (globally); perhaps "wide distribution in Japan" or similar? Sasata (talk) 17:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Done'. Curly Turkey (gobble) 20:19, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Foresters in Gifu Prefecture have justified the shooting of serows in the legs, as such shooting would not be fatal." I don't understand this … wouldn't shooting them in the leg be cruel and unusual?
  • I don't understand it either. Different culture, different values? Political motivations? Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• captions that are not complete sentences do not required fullstops
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:40, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• has/is serow been hunted for food? Is there any trade in serow fur? Are dried and ground up horns (or other harvested body parts) used in traditional medicine?
  • I'm surprised I missed this. There was quite a bit of detail on this in Knight 2003. I've now added a paragraph on it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 09:41, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• might it be possible to use the further reading listings as sources in the article?
  • I've made use of a couple most of them. I'll see what I can do with the rest. I didn't see anything to use in the others. Should I just delete them? Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:58, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I think so; there's dozens of articles that could go there equally well, so it's probably best not to encourage others to add to it. Sasata (talk) 17:06, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 20:27, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

• mention is made of the genetic closeness to the Taiwan Serow; how do they differ morphologically?
  • Done, I think. Curly Turkey (gobble) 02:08, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• what is its chromosome number?
  • I'm going to have to beg for help with this, as it's over my head. Jass & Mead 2004 on page 5 state: "Diploid chromosome number is 50 (FN = 60) with 5 pairs of metacentrics and submetacentrics, the remainder being acrocentric", all of which is Greek to me, so I don't know how to paraphrase it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 07:42, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
    • I'd keep it simple with something like "The karyotype is 2n=50, FN=60." Sasata (talk) 17:38, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
      • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:48, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
• according to PMID 21882974, Toxoplasma gondii infection occurs in not just captive individuals
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:44, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• ensure the Latin binomials are italicized in the works cited lists
  • Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 20:26, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
• not necessary for GA status, but you might want to make all of the article/book titles consistently title case or sentence case
  • Done. My hope was to send this to FAC, so feel free to nitpick. Curly Turkey (gobble) 20:26, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
• is "The Biology and Management of Capricornis and Related Mountain Antelopes" the title of a book (formatted as such in Honda et al. 1987) or a chapter in a book (per Lue 1987)?

Thanks a lot for the very thorough review of this article. I do have to admit that biology is not my specialty—I'll require some hand-holding, I'm afraid, for the more technical aspects. I hope the article's not so below the threshold that it'll result in not passing ... asking for help at WikiProject Mammals and a Peer Review both went without response. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to pass this article now, as I think it meets all of the GA criteria. All images have appropriate licenses. For FAC, I think you'll need to delve a bit deeper into the literature to meet the "comprehensive" and "well-researched" criteria. For examples, a search for "Japanese serow" on pubmed turns up 63 articles; many are too technical or deal with serow parasites, but there are some I'd ask about at FAC. Examples: PMID 16137494, PMID 24057256, PMID 19267649, PMID 11356292, PMID 9591368, PMID 9090995, PMID 8593314, PMID 8868213, PMID 7339141. A Web of Knowledge search turns up more than 400 articles; again, most are not really useful, but a literature search should be made (concentrate on literature from the past decade or so, as secondary literature will probably have covered the older stuff). You can often get copies of articles by asking at WP:RX (or ask me, I have pretty good access through my university account). Good luck! Sasata (talk) 16:43, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Some studies on morphology

Hello, in my free time, i like to search for weights studies of mammals. I currently have weight studies of about 2300 species and about 9000 entries that I oversee thoroughly.

Here are some on this animal, that might or might not be in the article (but i'm thinking not !) :

• Sugimura, M., Suzuki, Y., Kita, I., Ide, Y., Kodera, S., & Yoshizawa, M. (1983). Prenatal Development of Japanese Serows, Capricornis crispus, and Reproduction in Females. Journal of Mammalogy, 64(2), 302–304. doi:10.2307/1380561

• Miura, S. 1986. Body and horn growth patterns in the Japanese serow, Capricornis crispus. J. Mammal. Soc. Jpn., 11: 1-13.

• Honda, K., Tatsukawa, R., & Miura, S. (1987). Body and organ weights of free-ranging Japanese serow. The Journal of wildlife management, 678-680.

• Ginsberg, J. R., and D. I. Rubenstein. “Sperm Competition and Variation in Zebra Mating Behavior.” Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology 26, no. 6 (1990): 427–34.

• Weckerly, F. W. (1998). Sexual-Size Dimorphism: Influence of Mass and Mating Systems in the Most Dimorphic Mammals. Journal of Mammalogy, 79(1), 33–52. doi:10.2307/1382840

• Berger, J., & Gompper, M. E. (1999). Sex Ratios in Extant Ungulates: Products of Contemporary Predation or Past Life Histories? Journal of Mammalogy, 80(4), 1084–1113. doi:10.2307/1383162

• Ochiai, K., & Susaki, K. (2002). Effects of territoriality on population density in the Japanese serow (Capricornis crispus). Journal of Mammalogy, 83(4), 964-972. (this reference is in the article)

Just wanted to help this page a bit ! I hope Curly Turkey was still here. It seems like a very passionated user. Gimly24 (talk) 15:44, 24 January 2023 (UTC)