Talk:Jamie Whincup

Enduro Cup in Career Results section

@Kytabu, Holdenman05, and Prisonermonkeys: Recently, @Kpaspery: has been adding Enduro Cup standings to the Career Results section for some drivers including Whincup, so was wanting to get some thoughts as to whether this is a relevant and appropriate inclusion. In my opinion, the Enduro Cup isn't a championship and isn't worthy of inclusion in this section which normally refers to formal championships or series. This could be defined through a list of CAMS disciplines for example. Secondly, it adds clutter to the table which is otherwise a good way to track a driver's progress in the main series. So on the whole I don't think it is a worthwhile inclusion to the section.

Perhaps a separate sub-section could instead be added which can also allow room for mentioning co-driver (as per the Complete Bathurst 1000 results sections). Thoughts? SchueyFan (talk) 13:53, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I do not think it should be included; as you say, the Enduro Cup is not officially recognised by CAMS as a championship (based on this). Having said that, one thing I will bring up is that both the GT Championship and the Tourist Trophy are included in David Wall's table when the Tourist Trophy title was awarded at one round of the GT Championship. However, as the Tourist Trophy had previously been a standalone award and is officially recognised by CAMS, I feel there is a difference between the two situations. – Kytabu 06:11, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Not fussed either way, but if it'll look nicer without then go for it. Holdenman05 (talk) 02:14, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, the link to the CAMS webpage does show one thing, that looking through the CAMS manual, there are no rules for V8 Supercars. They are self regulating and in charge of parody. They have their own rules & regulations DIVISION “D” – SPORTING RULES. If you look under rule D15 they are in charge of all championships & trophies. Provisions are made for series champions, Enduro's and Development series Privateers Cup. Awards like the Mike Kable & Barry Sheene medals are also under control of V8 Supercars. As these medals & trophies are presented at their gala awards night, they should count.

Secondly, there are similar results from the Production Car & GT Production class championships David Russell one example & also AASA & AMRS that are defiantly not recognized by CAMS.

Thirdly, it seems unfair that we post results for drivers who have only done 3 rave meetings and may finish 60th in a championship. It makes that, usually professional driver, look second rate. We also don't use the correct template. We should be using this template

Season	Series	Team	Races	Wins	Poles	F/Laps	Podiums	Points	Position
2016	International V8 Supercars Championship	Triple Eight Race Engineering	30	8	5	6	18	3168	2nd

What Jamie's 2016 would look like. Just my thoughts. Happy to discuss further.--Kpaspery (talk) 21:51, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Is it also fair to list that same driver as finishing first, second or third in a "championship" when the result was mainly due to the efforts of the primary driver? On your first point, awards like the Young Gun Award and Barry Sheene Medal are irrelevant in this context. I also note that the document you linked refers to the determination of the Supercars Drivers' and Teams' Championships, as well as the Dunlop Series and Privateers Cup, but not the Enduro Cup. On your second point, listing class results as well as overall results is a different issue (classes can be seen as multiple championships being run at the same time, rather than a trophy awarded for scoring the most points at certain events).

I would favour changing to that style of table, though, but you need to fix the numbers. There were only 29 races in 2016, while Whincup won 7 races and scored 17 podiums with 6 poles and 5 fastest laps (Sandown qualifying races do not count towards drivers' statistics!). – Kytabu 21:53, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Includes Sandown qualifying race of course. Another contentious issue. --Kpaspery (talk) 20:15, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

I like the new format also, if implemented across the board. Sandown races are clearly not intended to be included to race win statistics.

Thanks to Kytabu for adding further points about Enduro Cup inclusion. The career results information should just be pure data and if a co-driver finishes 60th in a championship then so be it. The text section of the page should explain that they were a co-driver or perhaps a green shading can be introduced as per complete B1000 results at a pinch. Alternatively if the complete driver stats are added then it will be clear why they only finished 30-60th. Even apart from questions as to its status as a championship, I think this section is far more useful to show that Whincup for example had incredible consistency in the championship without poor Enduro Cup results breaking up the information. SchueyFan (talk) 04:11, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Before implementation - where is the car? Are individual race statistics more important than the car being driven? Remember who the audience is.

Hope you are having fun. --Falcadore (talk) 00:32, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

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