Talk:James William Webb-Jones

Contested deletion

This article is an expansion of the information already on the Wikipedia page for St George's School, Windsor Castle, where you will find the name 'J.W. Webb-Jones' with a link to two sources. This article is not an autobiographical article. My name is not Webb-Jones. I have chosen this for my username due to my intention in creating the account being to create the page concerning the man with the name in question, who has been dead for over 50 years. The article has been created in response to repeated enquires from British Columbia into the descendants of the family of Richard Moody, for whom there is a Wikipedia page. I would ask the user who uses the name 'INVISIBLE' to refrain from discussing matters of which he is ENTIRELY IGNORANT.I shall continue to delete his 'speedy deletion' requests, unless an administrator can provide me with a reason why this page cannot exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Webbjones (talk • contribs) 06:39, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

@Webbjones: Here's the Invisible Guy! Actually the same name confused me. Please DON'T REMOVE SPEEDY DELETION TAG, If you're correct then they wont delete this article, Thanks. - INVISIBLE^knock! 06:55, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

@Webbjones: I've just one question for you, If you want to edit Barack Obama's article, will you change your name to Barack Obama? - INVISIBLE^knock! 07:00, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

@Invisible Guy: I can see why it confused you. Do not worry. All the information I have stated is true. As I said, you may see the existing links for yourself if you wish.I have created the page due to repeated requests from different sources for information re. the family of Richard Moody, for whom there has been a Wikipedia article for many years. I have no intention to write autobiography.

@Webbjones: Okay! Provide some Reliable sources here and I'll cancel my request, Thanks. - INVISIBLE^knock! 07:24, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

@Invisible Guy:

 REFERENCE 1: http://vcs.atwebpages.com/page19.htm (Photograph of the man himself (would you upload it for me - I don't know how!). Refers to daughter Bridget (like my article) and her husband Peter Lyons (like my article). Refers to fact that he moved to Wells Cathedral School (like my article).

REFERENCE 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_George%27s_School,_Windsor_Castle . Look at the list of Headmasters. You will see J.W. Webb Jones listed for the same years I mention on my article. On this page, the reference mentioned at the bottom is:  : a b c d e Wridgway, Neville (1980). The Choristers of St George's Chapel. Chas. Luff & Co. p. 132.

(Webbjones (talk) 07:37, 6 June 2016 (UTC)).

@Webbjones: Hmm! I'm little busy now, will think about that picture later. - INVISIBLE^knock! 07:54, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

@Invisible Guy: Thank you very much for cancelling the deletion request. I will try to work out how to do the picture. Have a good day.

(Webbjones (talk) 07:57, 6 June 2016 (UTC)).

Contested deletion

PLEASE READ THE ABOVE — Preceding unsigned comment added by Webbjones (talk • contribs) 06:44, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Trivia and maintenance tags

Please discuss the repeated insertion of trivia (both sourced and unsourced) and the repeated removal of maintenance tags. Teh article does not need the addition of a non-notable cousin, for example, and the maintenance tags seem valid. If the "failed verification:" tag is incorrect then please explain, but I see no possible valid reason for removing the "citation needed" tag. Meters (talk) 03:59, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

As "my edits were right" is not an exemption from WP:3RR, I have locked the article while we can discuss things. I see the following issues:

• The citation to "The London Gazette, 14 April 1942, Issue 35525, Page 1665" is here. It verifies M. Jones and Brothers was a company based in Swansea, Wales, but does not verify this was owned by Edward Webb-Jones
• The claim to have served in World War II is verifiable here by a formal notice of joining under the Administrative and Special Duties Branch, printed in the London Gazette in 1942.
• Regarding this revert, which is sourced to The Peerage, I would say one man's trivia is another man's useful bit of information, particularly as his daughter does not have a separate article, and therefore it would be appropriate to mention it here, provided the information is reliably sourced.
• Normally, a headmaster of a school is not particularly notable for a Wikipedia article. However, this person has served in multiple historically important schools, including St George's School, Windsor Castle which is anything but a run-of-the mill school since several members of the British Royal Family have attended it.

Webbjones is new, and it appears he is simply transcribing information out of a collection of books he has. Arguing the toss over tags is probably counter-productive and unlikely to get a meaningful result, not to mention biting the newbies.

If there is any other content under dispute, please list it here and I'll have a look. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:46, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

User:SovalValtos added the cn and "failed verification" tags that have been removed. I do not have access to the original source for the "failed verification" tag but User:Ritchie333 confirms that it is valid. The tag should remain until the challenged info is cited. The "citation needed" on his education is also a valid tag that should remain until his education can be cited. The trivia about who his daughter's godmother was, who the godmother's husbands were, and what they were known for seems a stretch to me, but if other editors accept it I will also. That's why I brought it to the talk page for discussion after I removed it once (previously removed by SovalValtos). I have not suggested that the subject of the article is not notable, and I did not restore the cn on his war service.

The mention of the subject'a non-notable cousin has not been discussed. SovalValtos removed the claim that Francis Arthur John Webb-Jones was the subject's cousin as it was not in the cited source, and I removed the entire statement. If there were evidence that Francis Arthur John Webb-Jones were notable and his relationship was sourced his inclusion would be fine. As it is the purported cousin is apparently not notable and since I don't believe he should be mentioned in the article I brought the issue to the talk page. Meters (talk) 18:05, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

As for calling this bitey, I disagree. At least three other editors had already warned Webbjones about removing tags, and the user was continuing to revert without responding to attempts to discuss the issue on the talk page. Meters (talk) 18:05, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you User:Ritchie333 for finding the RAF source. Will you add it to the article?

• I can see no justification for including the material about the non notable daughter's, godmother just for being her godmother even though Webb-Jones likely had a part in choosing her. Why is it appropriate to mention it here if the daughter is not sufficiently notable to justify her own article? The source [1] does not support Lady Walford Davies being the godmother or having any connection with JWW-J. I support Meters in his removal of it.
• Webbjones has stated that they are a descendant of the subject [2] whose only child Bridget was born in 1937. Webbjones has not declared any WP:COI. He/she has uploaded to commons the image taken in 1955 [3] as their own work. The dates do not add up unless Webbjones is Bridget. SovalValtos (talk) 11:33, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

I have added the military service citation (I didn't earlier because the article was protected). Regarding the "biting", it's not a particularly egregious form of it, granted, but rather again I think that Webbjones has got their information from somewhere such as a book or collection of journals, and simply doesn't know the technical way to cite sources, so talking about citation tags is probably going to go over their head a bit. If we can tease that information out of them (no rush, they've got a block to sit out first), we should hopefully move forward with this. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:49, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Info box image

I intend to remove the image in the info box as a likely copyvio. It was introduced by Webbjones in this edit [4]. Webbjones uploaded it to commons as their own work which seems improbable given that it is dated 1955 and as a male descendant[5] he is not Bridget, the only descendant who might have taken it. SovalValtos (talk) 19:24, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

@User:SovalValtos Please do not delete. The image was taken by Bridget. I am a descendant of Bridget. We possess the original photograph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Webbjones (talk • contribs) 19:29, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

To prove that a photograph has a suitable licence (which, to cut a long story short, has to indicate that the picture can be freely copied and re-sold, which is not normally the case), you should file a request at the Open ticket request system. Copyrights are the one area where we really have to err on the side of deletion, as there can be legal problems otherwise. This is why, for example, Katie Hopkins has no picture even though an image search for her reveals hundreds. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:43, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

I am removing the image from the page now. Webbjones please regularize its copyright status or have it deleted it from commons as a copyvio. Please also remember to sign talk page edits with four tildes. SovalValtos (talk) 20:16, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

@User:SovalValtos @User: Ritchie333. I accept this, thank you for doing it. Also thank you User: Ritchie333 for adding citation for Military Service. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Webbjones (talk • contribs) 20:27, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Steamship company

User:Webbjones in this edit [6] you added that the father of James William Webb-Jones was the owner of M. Jones and Brothers using the citation to support the material. WhosWho requires payment of a subscription to view the full text. Please can you confirm that the source specifically supports Edward being the owner of that company? SovalValtos (talk) 20:51, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

User:Webbjones The Who's Who source states that E.W-J was the owner of a shipping company based in Glamorgan, but does not name the company. (Webbjones (talk) 21:03, 1 July 2016 (UTC)).

References