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Talk:James Gwyn/GA1

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Latest comment: 11 years ago by Mkdw in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Latest comment: 11 years ago29 comments2 people in discussion
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Reviewer: Cdtew (talk · contribs) 14:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

I'll be happy to take this on as my first GA review. Since this is my first time at this rodeo, I appreciate your patience. I will begin my review shortly. Cdtew (talk) 14:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

To start, this is a thorough article that clearly demonstrates hard work put into composition and care for the subject. I think it's commendable work, but needs a little bit of TLC to get to GA status. It's my belief that with thorough work, you could even put this up for MILHIST ACR or FAC. Putting the article on hold for seven days until the following issues are looked at. If you make some progress, and need more time, say so, and I'll consider leaving it on hold longer.

Yikes! Okay I'll certainly give it a shot. I submitted this almost three weeks when I had some time but I'm currently working on a professional deadline making quality editing time a rare luxury. I certainly appreciate your thoroughness in looking over the article. I have not written or contributed to a GA since 2007! I thought it was about time. Unfortunately the number of contributors to this article is almost entirely a solo effort except for some functional edits by MJ94 and the original prose block by the creator. If I am unable to meet the GA requirements, in the very least small portions of the article will be improved via your feedback. Mkdwtalk 22:31, 11 February 2013 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, given that this is my first review, I may have gone overkill on it, but if you're tight on time, I'd suggest you take care of things in this order: 1) citations and referencing, 2) grammar and style, 3) image work, and lastly, 4) content improvement. I think the article would meet GAN criteria if you did 1,2,3, and part of 4. Cdtew (talk) 23:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)Reply
I had an extended lunch today and was able to slip away and do some editing. Thank you; I saw you did a considerable number of edits, especially helping out with the ranks. I noticed in a lot of the first hand communications they hyphenated the rank titles so I think that's where it came from though I wouldn't discount my Canadian/Britishism either. I appreciate all the help and advice. Finding that source from the immigration archives is sheer brilliance. I was trying to find a free available source for it. Mkdwtalk 22:14, 13 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Prose Review

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  • I have made several grammar and style edits, which you may feel free to revert if you disagree.
    I consider myself not a very good writer and will defer to your expertise.
  • First, wrt rank/titles, I noticed two things. One (and this is a mistake I often make), you capitalize military ranks sometimes when that's not recommended. Military ranks only need capitalization when they precede a person's name (ie "Brevet Major General James Gwyn", but "he was promoted to the rank of brevet major general")
  • "The Third Brigade fell back for over a month, resuming major operations on March 31, 1865, when Gwyn led the Third Brigade to White Oak Road in Virginia.[37] Gwyn stated in a letter written himself that he deployed the First Brigade as ordered by Headquarters of the Second Division Fifth Corps." This makes it very unclear as to what Gwyn's command actually was. Was he in command of the First Division? Several Brigades in the First Division? Look through the whole article for this sort of thing to clarify.
      Done Gone through the article. Removed some discrepancies, especially the part you mention which may be leftover content that didn't get parsed about an incident on April 14.
  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but one doesn't (or didn't) generally "enlist" as an officer; stylistically the lede and body of text should reflect that he received a commission, or was commissioned.
      Done I'm not extremely familiar with the correct terminology but I think you're right that you enlist and then given a commission as an officer.
  • The lead section needs reorganization to fit the chronology. It currently goes "War-Early life-Death", when it should follow the article and go "Early life-War-death".
      Done I'm not certain if it should be 3 paragraphs or only 2, but that is merely a spacing issue.
  • Also, citations in the lead are generally unnecessary, as the information will (presumably) be cited in the body. WP:WHYCITE says they're "discouraged", so I'll leave that up to you.
    I was instructed it was required to have a citation in the lead for the DYK statement (perhaps because it is referenced individually at DYK). There are a few quotes in which require a citation but I will work to reduce the numbers for non-contentious sentences.
  • I think you were given partly bad advice. See WP:LEADCITE, which says only to cite things that are likelihood be challenged; I don't think anything in your lead is likely to be challenged. Jus ensure that the facts referenced in the lead are found in the body and are appropriately cited there. Cdtew (talk) 03:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • I would, however, say that your captions need to be cited, per WP:WHYCITE, since some, including the Wilderness and Griffin image captions, provide some information that isn't found on the picture's page.
      Done
  • Speaking on images, the "Corn Exchange" image caption isn't very clear. I'd clarify succinctly in the caption and add a cite.
      Done
  • "When war broke out" - this seems a little colloquial; watch out for colloquialisms in your article; there are several present, such as "he ended up" and "twenty-two days shy". Give the article a thorough read-through, and replace such language with more encyclopedic phrasing, such as "he formed a dried [I think it may more properly be dry goods?] goods business..." and "Gwyn arrived in America through [nix via] the Port of New York 22 days before his 18th birthday", respectively.
  • Again, watch your chronology in the Early Life section. You have him arriving in the USA, but then later say he left Ireland during the Great Famine.
      Done
  • What was the John R. Skiddy? A large passenger ship, a dinghy, a mail packet? I think a simple descriptor will help your reader out.
      Done Turns out it was a packet ship.
  • This: "A link between Londonderry and Philadelphia was noted by an Emigration Officer Edward Smith at Londonderry that, 'Nevertheless, the money that recent arrivals in America remitted for the passage of others was central to the whole link between Londonderry and Philadelphia'" seems awkward and needs some rephrasing. Was it significant that a lot of Londonderrians went to Philadelphia because Irish immigrants in Philadelphia proactively paid for them to come over? Or was Gwyn's immigration to Philly paid for by someone else?
      Done rephrasing the link.   Not done I have no information about whether James Gwyn had a familiar member or a sponsor. It seems likely due to the wealth of his family that he paid for the trip himself and possibly followed other family there such as his brother -- but again no source that specifies this.
  • "While he received work" is similarly awkward. Perhaps "Gwyn worked as a clerk [for what? A court, a business, an import-export company?] during 1850, but formed a dry goods business with George H. Steward [in year?]..."
  • "in the state which he wanted to naturalize in" - this is gramatically incorrect (the correct being "in the state in which he wanted to naturalize") and awkward, but the grammatically correct version is awkward too; how about "...and after spending one year in Pennsylvania [as required by U.S. law? This would need an additional reference if true]".
  •   Removed No adequate source. I had left it in as I was still looking for the source but haven't found it.
  • Clerks don't and didn't generally have court, but I don't know much about the legal process in 1850's Pennsylvania. It may be more accurate to say "before Oswald Thompson, the clerk of Philadelphia County..." If your ref says "in the court of", though, I'd leave it.
  •   Removed No adequate source. I had left it in as I was still looking for the source but haven't found it.
  • Whenever describing units of measurement such as square feet or miles, use a conversion template, such as Template:Convert.
      Done
  • Clarify in which year Gwyn & lady visited the Imperial Hotel Belfast.
      Done Changed the wording to state the date.
  • In the first subsection of military service, you say he fought in engagements "such as Seven Pines"; I think, for completeness' sake, you should make a prose list of the engagements he fought in, and not leave it up to the imagination of the reader. If they were significant in any way, perhaps describe the unit's role?
      Done Seemingly that might be the whole list.
  • The sentence "Gwyn resigned from the 23rd Volunteers on July 22, 1862 where he accepted a promotion to Lieutenant-Colonel in a new regiment" should probably be combined with the sentence "Gywn joined the 118th Pennsylvania Infantry, on July 25, 1862, accepting his promotion in doing so." under the "Lieutenant-Colonel" sub-heading because they're semi-redundant.
      Done
  • "In a few days time" - another colloquialism
      Done
  • The sentence beginning with "On the road, Gwyn wrote..." seems sort of out of place. What's so notable about that fact? I'm not a fan of including rather trivial information, so I would excise that unless there's a particularly good reason.
      Done
  • The last sentence, containing "fortunate enough", has issues with WP:EDITORIALIZING; I suggest you re-phrase it so it has a Neutral POV.
      Done
  • What exactly is artillery stocking? I know what you mean, but a reader most likely wouldn't. Is there an existing wikipedia article this can be linked to? (N.B. I didn't find one on a cursory look).
      Done Field Artillery in the American_Civil War#Ammunition This was the closest I could find. The source does not suggest whether they were stocking artillery supplies or stocking the artillery ordinates themselves.
  • "The regiment was 'severely decimated' during the battle. In total, 71 deaths, 75 wounded, and 67 captured." - Why the single quotes? If its a direct quote, it needs double (") quotes, and needs a citation. Also, the second sentence lacks a verb and subject. Should it be "The regiment suffered 71 deaths, etc."? If so, consider combining the sentences.
      Done
  • "The Confederates also suffered heavy losses totaling 262" is phrased a little awkwardly. What about "The Confederates suffered approximately 262 casualties in that battle."?
      Done Similar wording.
  • "Gwyn's "courage and coolness" during that battle were praised by Colonel James Barnes in a letter written five days after the battle ended" While it's nice that Barnes said that, what's the significance? Was Barnes Gwyn's direct superior, or the commander of a regiment nearby who observed Gwyn closely?
      DoneBarnes was the brigade commander at the Battle of Shepherdstown.
  • "...though his efforts were in vain as he was ordered to fall back" by whom?
      Done orders from Colonel Barnes
  • "...as it began to travel northward through enemy territory, with conflicts frequently occurring" What conflicts? Again, a quick summary or list would be nice for GAN criteria 3(a).
      Done The word I was looking for was skirmishes. Based upon the reports they were minor incidents sometimes with no causalities. No collected list available or names for each skirmish.
  • "On September 30, 1863, Prevost officially retired, and Gwyn was promoted as the highest-ranking officer of the 118th" This is where the ranking gets (understandably) confused. The last we'd heard, Prevost was semi-retired anyways; was this a permanent rank increase? what was his promotion (apparently to Colonel)?
  •   Done Yes this was messy. The original prose had an extended section about this that I had to remove due to lack of adequate sourcing. Prevost resigned from "active" duty but remained in the military and was supposedly given a commission to look after a prison. Either out of disorganization or a backlog, he still technically remained in command and Gwyn was the acting commander as lieutenant colonel for several months. Prevost finally officially retired from the military and Gwyn, who was already the acting commander, was given a commission and promotion to Colonel and commander of the 118th.
  • "Gwyn served perfunctorily in his new position of command of the 118th Regiment" Doesn't really seem new -- wasn't he commanding the 118th in the whole last section?
      Done I think this was leftover from a section where it discussed the fact that he was an acting commander for many months and it wasn't until Provost's paper's went through that he was officially given the promotion to commander. I wasn't able to find a source to substantiate the claim and removed the section but missed the reference in this sentence.
  • When and where did his horse fall on him, injuring his leg?
      Not done The sources do not provide this information though I did look hard for it since it was an important part of his career and one of the only times he was seriously wounded.
  •   Done Good enough.
  • When did Gwyn get command of the Third Brigade? The first we hear of it is "He continued to lead both the 118th Regiment and the Third Brigade and led them into the Battle of Globe Tavern."
      Done not exactly sure but it lists him as the commander of the third brigade for the battle so changed the wording to match.
  • " he was ordered to take command of both brigades" - do you mean the 1st & 2nd in addition to the 3rd? Or just the 1st and 2nd, leaving the 3rd to another commander?
      Done It was the 2nd and 3rd.
  • "The troops, of the 27th South Carolina Regiment, were unsuccessful in their assault" - this isn't phrased well, and appears out of nowhere. Was this part of Globe Tavern? If so, it's not clear in the article.
      Removed
  • What was First Division commander Charles Griffin's rank (for context)?
      Done
  • "news of the promotion was received on the 14th by the First Division" -- would probably read better as "The First Division received word of Gwyn's promotion on October 14th, and..." See about rephrasing that sentence.
      Done
  • "he had the privilege of filling his role" -- Seems like peacocking; NPOV phrasing needed; also, what role?
      Done removed and specified acting commander of the Second Division.
  • "Ayres sent a report praising Gwyn's 'prompt' and 'efficient' during the Battle of Globe Tavern" -- Prompt and efficient what? Also, the dates for Globe Tavern should be taken out of parentheses and set inside the sentence.
      Done
  • Apparently Ayres returned after his first leave, and took another leave, but his return (and Gwyn's de facto demotion) aren't mentioned.
      Question: If I mention Ayres' return and Gwyn's demotion, it would be out of deductions. I have no source that specifies what happened when Ayres returned. Only sources that subsequently show Ayres writing letters as the commander and that Gwyn would later be promoted out of his regular rank.
  • Why did Gwyn go on a leave from Jan 8 to Jan 21?
      Not done I wasn't able to find additional information other than he requested and was approved for a 20 day leave of absence as documented in military logs. Sorry.
  • "Fred T. Locke, Brèvet Colonel, ordered Gwyn..." A brevet colonel ordering a brevet major general? Brevets aside, would a lieutenant colonel order a brigadier general (or even a colonel) to do anything?
      Done Nice catch. He was the Assistant Adjutant Major-General but somehow when I was writing it I was looking at the previous communication of another Brevetted Colonel.
  • Watch for overusage of "however". You use it incorrectly at "Gwyn took control of the Second Division, however..." and "The fighting continued into the next day; however, by February 8". This isn't entirely necessary (except when incorrectly used), but see here and here for discussions of the overuse of however if you want to take this to ACR or FAC.
  • When did Gwyn get command of the first brigade in 1865? We went from talking about him being in command of the Third Brigade to talking about him deploying the First
      Done On November 7,
  • The last paragraph in the "Major General" subheading is confused, and doesn't give the reader a clear idea of what Battle we're talking about, or what the units are actually doing.
      Done I was confused myself but that paragraph was part of the events leading up to and involving the Battle of Five Forks.
    The time at White Oaks Road was not so much a battle as merely engaging the enemy at various positions in the area.
  • Since you talk about the Battle of Five Forks in the first sentence of the new subheading, give us a date for that event.
      Done
  • Was Ayres promotion request for Gwyn on April 27 denied or accepted?
      Not done I was not able to find a source that could answer that question, only the fact that James Gwyn was recommended for a promotion. It seems likely that it was not processed due to the logistics of the end of the war.
  • Is there a reason why the NYT's grand review description is in single quotes? If it's a direct quote, it needs double quotes.
      Done
  • When was Gwyn put back in command of the 118th? After the Review?
      Not done It does not specifically say in the source material I have. All source material such as [1] cite James Gwyn commanding the 118th, and also commanding the second and third brigade respectively. It appears he did both at the same time. I am not certain when Brevet Major J.B. Wilson took command of the 118th in time for the Grand Review. It's possible that these ranks were only for the Grand Review and not a reflection of the battlefield commissions.
  • Offered a position as lieutenant by Andrew Johnson, presumably? If so, put that in and wikilink it.
      Done Seems appropriate. Only one president at the time and it does specify president in the source.
  • 'Stuart Brothers' likely doesn't need quotes.
      Done
  • Who "moved out of the Brooklyn area to No. 9 Grove Street"?
      Done Frank Rehn & wife.
  • What's the significance of Gwyn's visit to his daughter? I'm assuming its because he died during that visit. Connect the two thoughts, and it will read well.
      Done
  • Why mention the Deseret News? Is it to show how far-reaching coverage was? If so, say so.
      Done

I know this appears like a bear, but its all very doable in a week's time. Let me know if you have any thoughts or concerns. Cdtew (talk) 17:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Cite/Copyvio review

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  • There are no ending citations for two whole paragraphs in the Early life section. This could theoretically lead to a quick–fail, but I trust you have adequate citations for those, and may have forgotten to put them in. Every para, at the minimum, needs a citation at its end, even if there are cites throughout the body (as the last sentence must be cited like all the others).
  • Make sure all your refs are consistent with all refs of a like kind in the article. Have you considered converting your book and journal cites to Harvard Style with shortened footnotes?
  • Done; I don't see any copyvio on a random sentence-check of 10 phrases and sentences of varying length and subjects; no issues with dablinks. Linkrot was detected for the following sources:
1. Fn 8 (Now fn 6), "IRISH IMMIGRANTS: NEW YORK PORT ARRIVAL RECORDS." - this apparently leads to an ancestry.com source; I went ahead and changed the cite to "Famine Irish Entry Project, 1846-1851. Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration." which is where Ancestry.com got this information in the first place. The direct link is here, I added a substantive note in Fn. 6 letting the reader know that on entry, Gwyn spelled his name with two "n's". In general, Ancestry.com is WP:NOTRELIABLE.
  Done Otherwise, no other ref issues, and refs appear to be legitimate and reliable.


Image Check

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  • The Battle of Wilderness.png photo doesn't have an applicable PD tag on it
  • Other images check out fine.
  • See note about citations in the captions, above.

For your convenience: open tasks

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As of today's date, these are the only open tasks which you are still working on: Cdtew (talk) 15:27, 13 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

  • Thirdly, wrt rank/titles, the whole article is a little confusing regarding the timeline of titles he held. I think you need to re-work some of the text so that it's clear when he's receiving a brevet or actual promotion, and when his brevet expires/reverts. Similarly, you need to make it clear about what commands he held at any given time. For instance:
      Done Made it up to the point where he was brevetted by Lincoln. Will continue work but seems like I've missed a lot as Smith has very accurate accounts in that time frame.
  • I think part of the problem was that you have him brevet to major general too early. On October 14, 1864, the source has him brevetted to Brigadier. I think this calls for a change in the section headings too. This is probably the only thing that needs to be cleared up before this is read to pass GAN. Cdtew (talk) 01:20, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • I can't believe I didn't catch that. It's certainly been refreshing to have an extra pair of eyes on it. You've done some much needed work; I'm very thankful you've stepped in and made then since my time has been so thin lately. Mkdwtalk 03:58, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • No problem! It happens; I was wondering why the continuity was off. It was odd to go from Colonel to Major General to Brigadier General to Major General, even though brevetted. I think at this point the article is worthy of GA status, and I'm satisfied that the improvements you've made have taken it a long way. I'll leave the remaining open issues here to think about for future improvement. It may be worth taking this to MILHIST ACR, because with a little more detail and some more sources, this article would be at that level. Cdtew (talk) 04:16, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • I'll certainly keep working on the article. I think the citations will need quite a bit of improving since ACR requires the citations to be formatted in a very particular way and in no range spans. Not so much content related, but certainly formatting wise. Mkdwtalk 06:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • Since Fredericksburg and Gettysburg were pivotal battles for any unit involved, I think you need to expand on Gwyn's role in each. Where was he positioned? What were his orders? I think the completeness requirement of GAN would mandate more info about these. Doesn't have to be obsessive, but the reader needs some guidance.
      Done I expanded Gettysburg and will probably add more since I found an account. I wasn't able to find much more about Fredericksburg other than that one account. It's possible they didn't have as colourful a role but still contributed to the battle.
  • The timeline of the Battle of Gettysburg is particularly confusing; use dates and times (even "morning of July 2nd" or "morning of July 3rd" to clarify).
      Done Let me know if I need to further clarify.
  • Again, a role in the Battle of the Wilderness (location, orders, etc.) would be nice for 3(a).
      Doing...
  • Why would the 118th regiment approve of his leave if he was a Major General? Wouldn't that have been done by Army Headquarters? This falls in line with a lack of clarity about his rank on given dates.
      Done Source didn't say who approved so I removed the specificity. Most of the information about his leave is only available from his return papers.
  • "The Third Brigade engaged the Rebels" seems redundant with the prior language, but since this battle appears important to Gwyn, give the reader more context. Where was the unit positioned? What were Gwyn's orders?

Review summary

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GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose):   b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):  
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section):   b (citations to reliable sources):   c (OR):  
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):   b (focused):  
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales):   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:  
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