Talk:James Gordon Jr.

Comma in name?

Does the name of the character in the comic books include the comma before "Jr." or leave it off? A talk page discussion elsewhere is occurring, and that is a question brought up in it. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 18:17, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

• Leave it off per MOS:JR. Your idea that MoS magically doesn't apply to fictional subjects has no rational basis. You've confused two unrelated ideas: The correct idea that, because MOS:TITLES advises not changing titles of published works, we retain a ", Jr." construction in the title of a book, film, etc., if it is used consistently in editions/releases/marketing of the work and in RS about it; and your made-up nonsense that if anything is fictional that no rules apply. Worse, everywhere I run into you posting about this, you're arguing to insert a comma before Jr. because the topic is fictional – an idea which doesn't make any sense.

  Even the publisher doesn't use the comma [1][2][3][4].  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:01, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

  • Where's the other discussion? Argento Surfer (talk) 12:50, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
    • Randy Kryn's talk page, and a related thread at Mandruss's page, I think, and probably more; plus older RMs where he's tried to blockade MoS's applicability to fictional subjects. I don't keep track of this stuff. RM consensus never goes along with it. Even in the cases of MOS:JR not applying to titles of works (if given consistently) it's not because "MoS baaad and optional", it's actually because MOS:TITLES is more important in the context.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:52, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

  MOS:JR has nothing to do with this question. MOS:JR is for biographies of real people. James Gordon (both of them) are fictional characters. And please be civil, this was just a question about the presentation of the fictional character. The discussion is at the talk page of user:Mandruss. p.s. can't look at your cites, my computer got stuck and froze up on the first one. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  That's funny that your computer won't let you look at the dccomics.com pages. Works on mine. Anyway, stop making up rules; there's nothing implicit in any guideline about style fictional names different from real person names; it's just your weird way of poking at something you're not happy with. Dicklyon (talk) 16:42, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  Wasn't happy or unhappy, it's just that MOS:JR pertains to people. Nothing weird going on, except for editors trying to pretend that fictional creations have entered the human realm (talk about meatpuppets!) and are somehow not the named artistic creations of writers, illustrators, screenwriters, playwrights, etc (and it's getting so I really do think it's kind of weird that some editors don't get that. Not changing the names of works of art on an encyclopedia seem like normal operating procedure). Randy Kryn (talk) 20:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

  You can keep saying that over and over again until the end of time and it still won't be true. There is no consensus decision that MoS somehow doesn't apply to fictional characters. We apply to them consistently, in fact.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:50, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

  "James Gordon (both of them) are fictional characters" is irrelevant. "Fictional = insert a comma" is weird nonsense you made up out of nowhere. What next? Will it be "if the subject is toys, you must render the letter R backwards"?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:54, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

  If the matter is not settled (although it is settled for film titles), then the creations being fictional is indeed relevant. MOS:JR applies to human individuals or their likenesses, not to fictional artworks. Your own proof by assertion doesn't make your opinion true either, and by pointing my assertions out but leaving out your own you tend to tip into emotionalism while accusing me of the same. The use of a comma for fictional characters is a point which should be clarified, possibly through an RfC, and hopefully without name calling or accusations of bad faith. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:42, 3 July 2018 (UTC)