Talk:Jacques d'Adelswärd-Fersen

Untitled

This has little to do with the article, but there's a link that includes a short piece on Villa Fersen, including some pix and some news on what became of it after Fersen's death: http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~jmatthew/naples/newpage.html Can be an external link? (added in 2005 by user:PiCo)

Some remarks.

• The name is 'Adelswärd', not 'Adelsward'.
• L'exilé de Capri by Peyrefitte is NOT a biography, but a tongue-in-cheek novel about an easy prey. Fersen figures in several novels by other authors (Compton Mackenzie's Vestal Fire for instance), but one should not take these novels as a source for Fersen's life. Same remark about La chandelle verte. You may extract illustrations from caricatures. But if you are interested in a man's true life, caricature can't give you a source.
• I removed a link to a 'short biography' with simply appallingly faulty names and 'facts'. If you want a good short biography, naturally you should read the Wikipedia biography itself.
• The link to the Foster article points to an advertisement page for Foster himself. Foster's article in the Encyclopedia of Homosexuality (to be found through Google only, and loading very slowly) is not only very short but also tainted with a POV. As a source, the 'Article about the life of d'Adelswärd-Fersen' in the external links section is excellent. One doesn't need Foster's (much older) piece in addition of it.
• Also, I wouldn't say 'Akademos was d'Adelsward-Fersen's short-lived attempt at publishing a monthly journal promoting pederastic love'. It was in the first place a literary monthly of a very luxurious kind. In each issue, very carefully a homosexual element was introduced: a poem, an article, a hint in the magazine's serial by Boulestin... only an estimated 10 % of Akademos may be counted as homosexual.
• 'Black Masses' 'which he mockingly called Pink Masses, referring to their homosexual content'. Where is the exact source for this? Just curious.
• Fersen is stated as a 'minor poet'. I'm sure he wasn't a major one, but what is the definition of a 'minor poet' as opposed to a 'poet'? Calling someone a minor poet, is that a POV?

Soczyczi 01:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Not having seen any response to the remarks above, I changed some elements of the text according to them. Also, I removed the mention that Fersen left out his name 'Adelswärd' when living on Capri: his last book, Hei Hsiang, was published in 1921 under his full name d'Adelswärd-Fersen. Also I removed the 'Pink Masses'. I suspect Peyrefitte was the source for this remark, attributed to Fersen; in any case I think it is anachronistic, because pink did not denote homosexuality in 1903. Soczyczi 00:00, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I know several researchers say Achille Essebac was a pseudonym for 'Achille Bécasse', but where is the proof for that? 'Essebac' is a name that still exists as a surname in France. Bécasse means woodcock, but it's also a synonym for 'stupid'. Soczyczi 00:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Soczyczi!

I mostly agree with your edits (I was the one who wrote the article in the first place).

Some remarks:

• I think it is important to point out in a WP article if somebody is a very well-known poet or a relatively obscure one. Although there is a rekindling of interest in his works, I would say A.-F. definitely falls into the second category. Right now, he is more famous for what other people wrote about him (i.e., his life) than what he himself wrote. I felt that should be mentioned somehow.

• Peyrefitte sometimes likes a good pun more than the facts (and the "Pink Masses" may be a case of that), but on the whole he was the one who "rediscovered" Fersen. If it weren't for him, A.-F. would probably be forgotten. So don't bash Peyrefitte too much! :-) His work was the only source about Fersen for a long time!

• As for "Akademos", I would say that it did promote pederasty, even if that made up only a fraction of its content. That is not a contradiction in my view. You can promote something without talking about it all the time.

Morn 17:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

File:Villa Lysis (Tiburzi).jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Pink masses

In Le Troisième Sexe (1927), Willy, apparently quoting Georges Anquetil (Satan conduit le bal, 1925, [?]), writes "Il ... prêtait volontiers son logis aux saturnales qu'organisaient ses amis: messes roses, messes noires, et autres scènes de débauche." Although pink had no particular association with homosexuality in France in 1903 (or even, I think, in 1925/27), certainly by the later date it was associated with sexual licentiousness more generally. 83.36.181.179 (talk) 19:47, 5 May 2013 (UTC)Petre

Poor Jack, who wanted so badly to be taken seriously, and is remembered, if at all, for being slightly ridiculous.PiCo (talk) 11:26, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jacques d'Adelswärd-Fersen/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MrLinkinPark333 (talk · contribs) 17:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello. Thank you for submitting this article to Good Articles Nominations! Unfortuanetly, I will have to quick-fail this nomination due to the Immediate failures criteria #1: "It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria". Specifically, this article has a lot of unreferenced sections. Here's a summary of what's uncited, sorted by ones with some citations and ones that don't have any at all.

Has some citations but needs more

• "Messes Noires' scandal - most of 1st paragraph
  • Trial - most of the 1st paragraph
  • Failed marriage - most of the paragraph
• Akademos revue - most of the 1st and 2nd paragraph, while only part of the 3rd paragraph is uncited.

Has no citations

• Early life - all of the 2nd paragraph.
• "Messes Noires' scandal - all of the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.
• Construction of Villa Lysis and world travels - all 4 paragraphs.
  • Temporary exile from Capri - all 4 paragraphs not counting the quote.
  • Later life - all 3 paragraphs.
• Lord Lyllian - all of the 1st paragraph.

Overall, I'm mainly concerned with the 15 uncited paragraphs. None of the Construction of Villa Lysis and world travels and subsections (Temporary exile from Capri and Later life) are cited. With this section alone, there are 11 uncited paragraphs, making this far from passing Good Article criteria #2 Verifiable with no original research. There are also uncited paragraphs in the Early life, Messes Noires' scandal and Lord Lyillian sections.

Similarily, there are uncited parts in the Messes Noires' scandal section and subsections (Trial and failed marriage) that has some citations but need a lot more to pass verification. Similarilly, while only the 3rd paragraph of Akademos revue is uncited, most of the 1st and 2nd paragraph of Akademos revue is uncited as well. Therefore, I will have to quick fail this GAN due to being a long way from passing criteria #2 verification. I hope this review encourages you to work on this article and resubmit it to GAN. Please feel free to read Wikipedia:Good article criteria so you know what GAN reviewers are looking for. Thank you for submitting this article to GAN! :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 17:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC)