Talk:Jacques-Cartier National Park

Requested move 12 December 2014

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the pages at this time, per the discussion below. If hatnotes are unable to solve any ongoing issues here, individual move requests away from ambiguous titles may still be warranted. Dekimasuよ! 00:51, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

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• Jacques-Cartier National Park → Jacques-Cartier Park (Laurentian Mountains, Quebec)
• Jacques Cartier Park → Jacques Cartier Park (Gatineau, Quebec)

– In English, it's more common for this park not to contain the word "national". Although there are a number of parks named after Jacques Cartier, the two most prominent are the provincial park in the Laurentian Mountains of Quebec and the urban park in Gatineau, Quebec. By removing all hit related to the park in Gatineau, Quebec the results clearly show that the word national is not employed most commonly in English sources for the provincial park. In English, "jacques cartier park" - gatineau -ottawa produces 638 Google book hits[1] whereas "jacques cartier national park" receives only 36 hits[2]. In google scholar, "jacques cartier park" - gatineau -ottawa receives 20 hits[3] and Jacques Cartier National park 7 hits[4]. Given the closeness in names, I am also suggesting disambiguation between the two parks in Quebec. There is a clear different in the name used in English and that used in French. French sources show a clear preference for including national, but it's not the same in English. Labattblueboy (talk) 04:35, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

• Support/Oppose Support moving the Gatineau park to the proposed title, as it is highly ambiguous. oppose as proposed for moving the provincial park. It does appear as a "national park" in Quebec English, instead I suggest Jacques-Cartier National Park (provincial park) or Jacques-Cartier Park (Quebec provincial park) as the title of that article, if it is to be moved. AND regardless of if "national park" is moved, the PEI park must be moved, Jacques Cartier Provincial Park -> Jacques Cartier Provincial Park (PEI) as this park is a provincial park, and also called that in English. "Jacques Cartier Park" should become a disambiguation page separate from the JC dab page. -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 05:08, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:CONSISTENCY re Category:National parks of Quebec. Americans, for example, might use "Banff Park" or "Jasper Park" for those national parks. MOSTCOMMON does not inherently trump official names. That being said CGNDB lists only the French name (very strange to me, given national parks in other provinces are generally - ? - listed there in both official languages...but that's Canadian name-politics for you. Still, CONSISTENCY is a governing principle of the WP:Five Characteristics.Skookum1 (talk) 04:47, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

  @Skookum1: For the non federal features, it is the province who choose the name of the place. The establishment regulation and the sepaq site bot labeled the parc "parc national de la Jacques-Cartier". Only Manitoba and New Brunswick have a official name in french and english for there parks. --Fralambert (talk) 16:19, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

  • You're quite wrong about that; BC lists both English and French names cf. Pacific Rim National Park Reserve of Canada / Réserve de parc national du Canada Pacific Rim. Its most common name, locally anyway, is "Long Beach" but that's not a reason to change it. That the federal government does not list it as having an English name is a curiosity of Canadian linguistic politics and "exceptionalist non-bilingual items" but it's still a national park, and its title is consistent with other national park titles, and has been stable for a long time and does not need changing. COMMONNAME as been invoked narrowly without addressing all of what section of TITLE says; it says a lot more than just raw googlesearches being the only determinant; very clearly it says different as spelled out on Talk:Mont-Tremblant National Park#Requested move just now.Skookum1 (talk) 16:20, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
    • I was not talking about the federal administrated protected areas. You have to remember the bot provincial and national park are labelled "national park" in Quebec since 2001. Jacques-Cartier National Park is a park owned and administred by the province. It is the reason of absence of english name on the CGNDB site. --Fralambert (talk) 22:47, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
      • To Quebec sovereigntists and per that name usage, it's a national park of Quebec, and in both name and concept as national park as much as that of any other "nation". The peculiarities of Quebec linguistic politics and jurisdictional - "national" and still official as such - nomenclature are problematic. But if a Russian or Cambodian national park does not have an English name, we still use an English version of the name.Skookum1 (talk) 03:19, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose per consistency with the other Category:National parks of Quebec. --Fralambert (talk) 22:47, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. The name of the park is officially the "Parc national de la Jacques-Cartier" --Cornellier (talk) 20:02, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

• Comment I've requested that Jacques Cartier Provincial Park be renamed, see talk:Jacques Cartier Provincial Park -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 07:05, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

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