Talk:Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Poland Low‑importance

	Poland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Heraldry and vexillology

Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Heraldry and vexillologyWikipedia:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyTemplate:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyheraldry and vexillology articles

Possible fake citation[s]

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I commented out the apparent Norman Davies citation, because I am unable to find the source. The only pages which contain the text are those, which copied the text from Wikipedia.

LMB (talk) 06:20, 21 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

BLP concerns

Latest comment: 15 years ago7 comments2 people in discussion

Nihil Novi, could you please outline why you think this sentence constitutes a BLP violation. "Pogonowski's critics have described him as a politically motivated amateur historian,^[1] as a conspiratologist,^[2] and as a leading and disturbing representative of ethnonationalist historiography.^[3]". I believe these are reliable sources and that the criticism is accurately stated. Reflist below. Novickas (talk) 20:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC)Reply

^ Piotr Wrobel. "The Massacre in Jedwabne, July 10, 1941: Before, During, and After". Rice University. Retrieved 2009-0530. [Marek Jan] Chodakiewicz quotes many authors, but the list is odd: next to outstanding historians, such as Piotr Wandycz or Krystyna Kersten, there appear politically motivated amateurs, such as Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
^ Monika Milewska. "The Image of Sects in the Polish Ultra-Catholic Press". CESNUR. Retrieved 2009-05-30. Another example of the conspiracy thinking is offered in an article The Provocators of the Apocalypse written by professor Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski.
^ Robert D. Cherry, Annamaria Orla-Bukowska (2007). Rethinking Poles and Jews: troubled past, brighter future. Rowman & Littlefield. It also constitutes one of the premises for historical thinking characteristic of the new and growing ethnonationalist historiography that has emerged in the post 1989 period. Its leading representatives are Marek J[an] Chodakiewicz, Piotr Gontarcyzk, Leszek Zebvrowksi, Bogdan Musial, the late Tomasz Strzembosz, and Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski. The intellectually disturbing aspect of their writing lies in the fact that these historians are considered members of the established mainstream historical schools.

1. Wróbel's passing reference is hardly a documented, reasoned critique. Historians who have praised Pogonowski's work include Norman Davies, Józef Gierowski, Aleksander Gieysztor, Anthony Polonsky, M.K. Dziewanowski and Richard Pipes.

Passing, yes, but significant. You seem to be implying that some level of praise from other historians should result in no criticism from others allowed in an article. I don't read NPOV that way.

2. Your Milewska quote, taken out of context, might be understood as indicating that Pogonowski is fundamentally mistaken in his description of some advocates of American born-again-Christian Apocalypticism; whereas the principal concrete criticism that Milewska offers is that he exaggerates its popular support.

Milewska quite clearly evaluates his work as conspiratologist.

3. Regarding the Cherry quotation, please see #1 for list of scholars who have endorsed Pogonowski's work. Nihil novi (talk) 10:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)Reply

Endorsement by some doesn't mean that criticism by reliable sources is not permitted, as I read it.Novickas (talk) 14:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC)Reply

Include laudatory assessments, and I won't object to critical ones (though your critical quotations do seem to me mistaken). Nihil novi (talk) 16:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)Reply

I don't object to summarized, referenced praise. That's what I attempted with criticism. If you think the criticism is mistaken, we could take it to BLP noticeboard. I don't see how my summaries of the quotations, now listed in full, could be seen so. Novickas (talk) 21:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC)Reply

Are you sure of the reliability and objectivity of the three Pogonowski-critics that you cite above? For example, of the other scholars condemned by Robert D. Cherry,

Marek Jan Chodakiewicz has, since 2003, been Research Professor of History at the Institute of World Politics in Washington, DC, where he teaches and conducts research on East Central Europe and Russia. In April 2005 he was appointed by President George W. Bush for a five-year term to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council. His academic awards have included:

Richard Hofstadter Fellowship (1989-1994), Columbia University;
The Office of the Prime Minister of the Republic of Poland Research Grant (2001);
2003 Józef Mackiewicz Literary Award;
The Earhart Foundation Fellowship Research Grant (2004).

Bogdan Musial, a German-Polish historian, similarly presents a respectable CV.

The late Tomasz Strzembosz, professor at John Paul II Catholic University of Lublin and at the Polish Academy of Sciences, likewise appears to have been a well-respected scholar.

I wonder whether it is wise to facilitate academic mud-slinging on Wikipedia—especially in reference to living and generally esteemed scholars. Nihil novi (talk) 00:54, 3 June 2009 (UTC)Reply

I don't think the publishers - Rice University, CESNUR, and Rowman & Littlefield - would engage in mudslinging. I hesitate to post this at BLP just now, since they have their hands full with much more serious business. Maybe at 3rd Opinion. Novickas (talk) 18:42, 3 June 2009 (UTC)Reply

Post at BLP noticeboard

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

See [1]. Novickas (talk) 15:39, 27 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

Unsourced, moved from BLP page to talk page

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski was born on 3 September 1921 in Lwów, Poland (now Lviv, Ukraine) to Jerzy Pogonowski, Ph.D., J.D., and Wanda Żygulska-Pogonowska, a painter and sculptor. His family bears the hereditary Polish Ogończyk coat-of-arms.

He was arrested at Dukla by Ukrainians in the service of the German Gestapo, and sent successively to German concentration camps at Barwinek, Krosno, Jasło, Tarnów, Auschwitz (Oświęcim) and, in 1940, Oranienburg-Sachsenhausen.

On 19 April 1945 he was sent on the Brandenburg Death March from Sachsenhausen. Evading the gunfire of SS guards, he arrived at Schwerin and freedom on 2 May 1945.

In September 1945 Pogonowski arrived in Brussels, Belgium. He matriculated at the Catholic University: Institute Superieur de Commerce, St. Ignace, in Antwerp.

In summer 1946 he arrived in Venezuela, where he worked at the engineering office of Texas Petroleum Corporation.

In fall 1950 Pogonowski started civil engineering studies at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, Tennessee. In 1953-55 he taught descriptive geometry there.

In 1954 he graduated in civil engineering at the top of his class and was inducted into the honorary societies: Tau Beta Pi (general engineering), Phi Kappa Phi (academic society equivalent to Phi Beta Kappa), Pi Mu (mechanical engineering), and Chi Epsilon (civil engineering ). In 1955 he graduated with an M.S. degree in industrial engineering.

In 1955 he began working for Shell Oil Company in New Orleans. After a year of managerial training, he was assigned to design marine structures for drilling and production of petroleum.

In 1960 he accepted a position at Texaco Research and Development in Houston, Texas, as a project engineer.

Pogonowski has authored 50 American and foreign patents on marine structures for the petroleum industry.

Over time, Pogonowski has become critical of Jews who follow the Talmudic teaching that the Ten Commandments are not to be applied to Gentiles, as explained by the late Professor Israel Shahak of Jerusalem. Pogonowski has also taken issue with such bizarre statements as Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s that “Jews rule America, and Americans know it.” Pogonowski has criticized the treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis, as well as those Jews who hold the Talmud-inspired belief that they are destined to rule the world, with the assistance of U.S. foreign policy.

He has published an article on "The Rise and Fall of the Polish Commonwealth: A Quest for a Representative Government in Central and Eastern Europe in the 14th to 18th Centuries."

He has begun work on a Tabular History of Poland.

Unsourced and poorly sourced, moved from BLP page to talk page. Per WP:BURDEN, do not add back to the article BLP page, unless and until properly cited to WP:RS secondary sources. -- Cirt (talk) 17:38, 27 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

External links modified

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100507064223/http://www.hippocrenebooks.com/book.aspx?id=1551 to http://www.hippocrenebooks.com/book.aspx?id=1551

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:02, 16 April 2017 (UTC)Reply

External links modified

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:20, 27 November 2017 (UTC)Reply

Add topic

[1] Piotr Wrobel. "The Massacre in Jedwabne, July 10, 1941: Before, During, and After". Rice University. Retrieved 2009-0530. [Marek Jan] Chodakiewicz quotes many authors, but the list is odd: next to outstanding historians, such as Piotr Wandycz or Krystyna Kersten, there appear politically motivated amateurs, such as Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)

[2] Monika Milewska. "The Image of Sects in the Polish Ultra-Catholic Press". CESNUR. Retrieved 2009-05-30. Another example of the conspiracy thinking is offered in an article The Provocators of the Apocalypse written by professor Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski.

[3] Robert D. Cherry, Annamaria Orla-Bukowska (2007). Rethinking Poles and Jews: troubled past, brighter future. Rowman & Littlefield. It also constitutes one of the premises for historical thinking characteristic of the new and growing ethnonationalist historiography that has emerged in the post 1989 period. Its leading representatives are Marek J[an] Chodakiewicz, Piotr Gontarcyzk, Leszek Zebvrowksi, Bogdan Musial, the late Tomasz Strzembosz, and Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski. The intellectually disturbing aspect of their writing lies in the fact that these historians are considered members of the established mainstream historical schools.

[1]

[2]

[3]