Talk:Islam in England

Discrimination or problems faced

There is evidence that Muslims face certain problems, like unemployment, to a greater extent than other faith groups but this in itself does not prove that discrimination is the cause - we need a reference that says it is down to discrimination for us to be able to say so. Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 21:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Every immigrants will feel they are discriminated because of the new environment, you can't expect the whole country and society to change to meet your specific demands. you can only change yourself to fit in your new home or you will be isolated as expected. I for one don't see harder discrimination to moslim than other immigration groups, but the moslems are just doing worse both in school and work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by River Cod (talk • contribs) 09:36, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Basis of article

This article is based, originally almost or actually verbatim, on a lecture by Amir Tareq Ali given in 2008 at Cape Town, South Africa, as part of the 11th International Fiqh Conference.

See : http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/content/articles/Conf_005_19102008.html

While it is an interesting speech, and a convenient basis for an article, it is the view of one individual, who is an international Islamicist. Subsequent additions and ammendments, with references, bring the article to a more encyclopadic standard.

IAC-62 (talk) 10:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at the Islam in the United Kingdom article two days before Mr Ali's speech[1]. Mr. Ali may well be an international Islamicist, but he is apparently not averse to using Wikipedia content without attribution. Duncan Keith (talk) 16:44, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Poverty

I have re-added the below paragraph because it is an important BAFTA winning series and the paragraph is WP:Verifiable with a good source. There is no valid reason why it should be removed:

'There is a growing inequality in Muslim groups living in major cities such as London, this was exemplified by the BBC documentary The Tower. Part of the series focused on a Muslim family, led by unemployed parents, and contrasted the lifestyle with a Yuppie Muslim couple, who held highly paid jobs in Canary Wharf, as they lived adjacent to one another in East London. The documentary showed the couple, employed as a Dentist and Investment Banker respectively, basking in their luxury apartment as the family father, Shakor a former drug dealer, wiped condensation from his window (in gaze of the Yuppie couples riverside apartment) and shrieked his old way of life. The series showed a contrast in education, income and living standards between an experienced Muslim family and a comparatively newly settled Muslim family living in Britain.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.61.232 (talk) 10:25, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

The single news article [2] used to source all of the statements above does not support most of them. It says nothing about "growing inequality in Muslim groups living in major cities such as London". It just follows a few immigrants around, describing their own personal stories. That does not a community make. This is why the anecdotes on the heroin-addicted Leol and his alcoholic best friend Nicky that are also described in that link have likewise not been cited as a reliable source on the growing disparity in their particular community. As such, the passage clearly fails WP:NOR, WP:UNDUE and WP:REDFLAG and has been removed. Middayexpress (talk) 22:08, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced?

I disagree that EDL is misplaced. The discrimination section focuses on the muslim role in society. I also disagree EDL is small; EDL has been described as the largest UK far-right stret protest movement since the 1970s, and in others reports since the 1930s. Pass a Method talk 17:37, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

It's misplaced in the article as there's already a section on discrimination, including intolerance from the white British community. As such the discrimination is much wider and more pervasive than the activities of the EDL, and having a section on them, a tiny protest group (from their article they've had no more than 2000 people on a protest, less than 1% the number that marched against cuts earlier this year) gives them far too much weight.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 17:56, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Firstly, EDL has had 3000 people on a protest. EDL is linked to several international figures and organizations including the Anders Breivik. EDL is continuously in british headlines, including today with 170 arrested EDL members. Unlike the cuts protest which lasted for a short time, EDL has consistently been demonstrating weekly or monthly for 2 1/2 years straight. Also the EDL support base is mostly online, therefore these demonstration turnouts are quite meaningless. Pass a Method talk 18:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

You wrote it's the largest far-right street protest movement as the reason for including it. If the turnouts though are quite meaningless then that's no reason to include it. And you've not addressed the issue with it being misplaced in the article, with discrimination already being covered.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 20:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I did not mean protests are meaningless, but it is one of many reason why they're notable. As for "misplaced", i will move it to that section now. Pass a Method talk 20:41, 11 November 2011 (UTC

References

Almost identical to Islam in the United Kingdom

Is there a good reason why there should be two articles which duplicate so much material between them? This looks to me like a classic case of redundant content forking - if so, this should probably be merged with Islam in the United Kingdom. Alfietucker (talk) 21:49, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

No estimate on total number of Mosques in the UK?

Can't find one in the article. Any ideas how many? Islam in Wales states Wales has around 40 Mosques. Reaper7 (talk) 18:17, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Claim re East London Mosque is not in the reference cited

AHLM13 has cited Kratke's Transnationalism and Urbanism (p 145) for a claim that had been disputed before both here and on other talk pages. The same editor has recently used that citation in several articles: London, Islam in England, Islam in the United Kingdom, Religion in England, Religion in the United Kingdom and East London Mosque. The reference does not support the claim, that the East London Mosque was "the first mosque in the European Union to be permitted to broadcast the adhan" - it just briefly recounts disputes over allowing the adhan in 1986. On being reverted, the editor has re-inserted the claim, a claim which does not even appear on the mosque's comprehensive website yet seems to be being used to give the mosque (and a particular image of the mosque) priority on Wikipedia over all other UK mosques. I will remove the claim again and ask AHLM13 not to repeat it without a source which clearly and directly states it. Of course, they should also stop placing that image in the Middle Ages section of the article; it was not built in the Middle Ages and the image is clearly anachronous. NebY (talk) 17:43, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Background to Immigration

There should be some reference or links to the reasons behind allowing unprecedented mass settlement of aliens in the United Kingdom, as a background to the article. 73.15.186.131 (talk) 07:01, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

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New source

A new book by Jerry Brotton, This Orient Isle: Elizabethan England and the Islamic World, might be a useful source for this article. There's a review here. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:11, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

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This article needs a lot of work

This article is about 70% disgrace, I was looking for empirical information about laws unto Islam emanating throughout the age from the crown and all I got is mostly some politically tainted document defending the presence of Islam in Britain, about as informative as an infomercial for an American profit making church. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.20.167.16 (talk) 11:39, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Terrorism section starts with nonsense about 1066 and the battle of Hastings!

Needs deleting/correcting 92.40.212.174 (talk) 18:03, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Islam in England

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Islam in England's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ons.gov.uk":

• From Religion in England: "UK Government Web Archive".
• From 2011 United Kingdom census: "The History of the Office for National Statistics".
• From Leicester: "2011 Census: Ethnic group, local authorities in England and Wales". ONS. Archived from the original on 16 January 2013. Retrieved 12 December 2012.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 01:06, 16 June 2023 (UTC)