Talk:Iqbal Masih

Disputed ?

A journalist from LaPresse (a respected media of Canada) asserts that Iqbal Masih died at 19 and was not killed by the "carpet mafia": https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/2020-07-28/les-fables-des-freres-kielburger.php After a quick and unexhaustive search, this is the main source I've found for her version of the story: http://afpak.blogspot.com/2011/12/truth-about-iqbal-masihs-tragic-death.html Anyone with more information on this?

User:Millionsandbillions' Reverts

User:Millionsandbillions has repeatedly tried to remove the fact that Iqbal Masih (note that this individual's surname Masih, is derived from the word Messiah) is a Pakistani Christian from the lede of the article. He has also altered the title and content of references, including quotes, to remove the word "Christian" from them. In Pakistan, Iqbal Masih's minority religious community has direct relevance to his occupation. The text Bonded Labor: Tackling the System of Slavery in South Asia, authored by Siddharth Kara and published by Columbia University Press, states that "In Pakistan, the minority groups most often exploited at the lowest rungs of the brick kiln labor ladder are Christians and Afghan refugees." The article Iqbal Masih's Life -- a Call To Human Rights Vigilance, published by the CS Monitor and authored by Timothy Ryan of the AFL–CIO, states:

But on a more complex and sinister level, there is some connection between the fact that Iqbal was Christian and the fact that he was pressed into slavery in the first place. Iqbal's story has an economic and political subtext: Politicians and businessmen in Pakistan form a tight web of relationships based on kin, clan, and caste. They count on family members who occupy positions of authority in local, provincial, national, and police bodies to look the other way when laws are violated, or, in many cases, to actively participate in crimes against workers and minorities.

Removing Iqbal Masih's faith from the lede is therefore omitting relevant context behind this figure. I should also note that if User:Millionsandbillions reverts once more, he will be crossing WP:3RR. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 18:55, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Prior to February 2018, before User:Anupam started editing the article, the only mention of Masih being a Christian was in the Categories (where it should be). User:Anupam then editted the page on Feb. 23 2018 so that it first read "Pakistani Christian". It is absurd to claim that mentioning religion in the lede is adding "relevant context" when the article existed for 14 years before that info was put in. The alteration of references was a mistake but it was an anonymous editor that removed the content and I did not realize that they were references and not part of textwhen I reverted to that IP's revision and for that I apologize, but that doesn't mean that the faith is appropriate to include in the lede. In fact the references that mention that he was a Christian were added by User:Anupam! (see here, here, and here) Note that User:Anupam also edited to say that he was killed on Easter Sunday, what is the point of that? The article "Iqbal Masih's Life -- a Call To Human Rights Vigilance" was published by the Christian Science Monitor (notice here that User:Anupam shortened it to CS Monitor) which is hardly a non-biased source and would have its own reason for proselytizing. Another poor reference that User:Anupam has added to the article is a report from World Vision, which is a Christian missionary organization, I think that speaks for itself. Just because something is verifiable does not mean it needs to be included in the article per WP:ONUS and the article lede does not need to shout from the rooftop that he was a Christian, as if painting Masih as a literal martyr. As for the individual's surname being Masih, Jesus is also given that title in Islam. While User:Anupam may want to proselytize, this project is not the venue for that, per WP:SOAPBOX. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 21:08, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Millionsandbillions, I think you fail to understand the geopolitical context of South Asia, especially that of Pakistan, which was created on a religious basis. In that region, one's religion is a defining feature of themselves, with religious minorities (Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus, Jains) experiencing persecution. TIME Magazine corroborates the information that Anopam provided above, stating that "The Asian Development Bank estimates some 1.8 million people — typically lower-caste men, religious minorities, women, the disabled, Afghan refugees and children — work mostly in Pakistan’s brickmaking sector for little or even no pay." [1] Accusing Anopam of proselytizing when he added citations is disingenuous--the fact that the titles of these articles mention Iqbal Masih's Christianity should highlight that it is important in this context. Harmanprtjhj (talk) 03:13, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

It seems that User:Harmanprtjhj missed my point about the citations that User:Anupam provided. The point was that these are biased sources, one from a Christian-themed newspaper the other from a Christian missionary organization. If his religion was a "defining feature" of his being why did it take fourteen years to end up in the article? It seems to me that some people have an agenda to claim him as a Christian for proselytization purposes. The fact remains that this homicide was the result of a labor dispute or just a senseless killing by a drug addict, not "Christian persecution." The Time article User:Harmanprtjhj linked to does not mention Masih anywhere in it, so to use it as proof that Masih suffered "persecution" for being a Christian is a WP:SYNTHESIS. It violates WP:UNDUE and WP:SOAPBOX to mention Christianity in the lede because it is not a defining characteristic of this homicide. Are there any reliable, non-biased sources that specifically refer to the murder of Masih as a hate crime or a terror attack? If there are then it would be due weight to include the faith in the lede. -- Millionsandbillions (talk) 18:32, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

This isn't synthesis because there are other sources, such as the one that Anopam provided, that show the context. Pakistan in National and Regional Change: State and Society in Flux, which is published by the academic press Routledge similarly says:

Large numbers of Christians in the Punjab and Sindh, in particular, are trapped in bonded labour or slavery in work like brick kilns and carpet-weaving. Around 80% of brick kiln workers in some areas are Christians working to pay off family debts long since paid in absolute terms, yet who are illiterate and remain powerless to do anything about their circumstances. The plight of Pakistan's bonded labourers came to international attention briefly with the murder of 12-year-old Christian Iqbal Masih in 1995. Having escaped slavery, Iqbal campaigned against bonded labour and was killed to silence him.

The context is absolutely clear, with the Pakistani Christian caste making up a significant percentage of brick kiln workers who are enslaved; this publication furthermore introduces Iqbal Masih as a twelve-year-old Christian so there's a precedent for us on Wikipedia doing the same. Harmanprtjhj (talk) 02:07, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Iqbal Masih - Pakistan (Children Rights Activist).png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:56, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

July 2022 Edit War...?

@41.75.4.43 @Discospinster Can we bring this to a talk page before u guys get screwed into an edit war? There does seem to be a content dispute more so than vandalism. I'm specifically referring to the small edit war that started around Revision 14:19, June 1, 2022, and seems to be getting reinvigorated now. InvadingInvader (talk) 06:08, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

I am not involved in any edit war as far as I can tell. ... discospinster _talk 14:35, 28 July 2022 (UTC)