Talk:Indus–Mesopotamia relations

Misrepresentation of sources

I have removed the repeated non-scholarly genetic studies as they don't meet WP:HISTRS. Repeating same point of view by printing one-sided genetic studies is POV Pushing. Asko Parpola says that "Mehrgarh" became "Indus Valley civilisation" not something that this article was misrepresenting. Parpola is not discussing near east or Mesopotamia so he should not be included in the article per WP:SYNTH. I also removed the misrepresentation of sources where the text claimed that there is 'influence', when the sources only say that seals of Mesopotamia and Indus Valley shows similarity. 42.107.227.207 (talk) 14:05, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

@पाटलिपुत्र: Consider replying here instead of edit warring any more. I agree that genetic researches are too random for inclusion here. Don't use the random sources to circumvent the requirement of sources that require proficiency in history. Can you quote the sources if they really support whatever you are attempting to add? Aman Kumar Goel^(Talk) 16:36, 17 December 2019 (UTC) 

@Aman.kumar.goel: If you have specific issues, please explain them one by one. You cannot just go around mass-deleting long-standing referenced material. For example, you are replacing "influence from Mesopotamia" by "similarities" [1]: this is POV and a distortion of the sources, since the sources cleary state that the motifs are derived from Mesopotamia, as in Possehl, Gregory L. (2002). The Indus Civilization: A Contemporary Perspective. Rowman Altamira. p. 146. ISBN 9780759116429.. You cannot do that, or you will end up being blocked for vandalism. But on the other hand you were right about Parpola per your above comment, and I did remove it a while ago after checking the source [2]. That was a positive contribution. So please explain specific issues, and we can then remove problematic material if there is any. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 16:51, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

And your source really does not support the word "influence" as noted by IP above. At least 3 editors including the IP above and me have reverted your POV until now. If you are going to attack people by calling their reverts of your misrepresentation a "vandalism" then you are being the problem here. You should avoid asking others to "explain specific issue" when you haven't even addressed all the concerns already raised above. You haven't addressed your spam of genetic researches, neither you have quoted where you found the wording you are using here.  Aman Kumar Goel^(Talk) 00:49, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

If you are not specific and keep being aggressive, this is not going to move forward. Please look at the sources regarding the seals:

• Gregory Possehl describes "Mesopotamian themes in Indus iconography", "... related to the Gilgamesh epic", "...that some aspects of Mesopotamian religion and religion would have been accepted at face value is a reasonnable notion" [3].
• Damodar Dharmananda Kosambi: "Gilgamesh" on Indus seals [4].
• C. Scott Littleton: "Possible influences from other cultures", citing Mesopotamian themes in Indus iconography [5]

So "Mesopotamian influence" in some of the seals is widely supported by reputable sources. If you wish, we can add wording like "Mesopotamian themes in Indus iconography" like Possehl etc...
For the rest, please show specific examples that you are disputing, so that we can look at the sources and evaluate. Please note that a lot of the content you have been mass-removing is adapted from portions of the Indus Valley Civilisation article. Thanks. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 04:45, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Just like before, your sources are not exactly supporting your information. At best these sources are casting a doubt or discussing a mere possibility about having a contact or 'possible' influence. These speculations were described as 'similarities' by the IP, while you are presenting these speculations as facts and thus misrepresenting sources.

You can also find the contrary, such as, [6][7][8] which say that Indus Valley Civilization influenced Mesopotamian seals, art.

It is also unwise to a map which was created by you[9] on any article. See WP:OR and WP:RS - you are not a reliable source.

Beware that the WP:OWNERSHIP you are showing over this article, and now WP:IDHT constitutes WP:DE. If other articles have a problem then you can fix them but here you are responsible for all the edits you have made. Aman Kumar Goel^(Talk) 07:54, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

There is a LOT of influence from the IVC to Mesopotamia described in this article as well. If you have more information, you are welcome to add it with reputable sources as reference. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 08:01, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree with above that genetic researches don't meet WP:HISTRS and they should be avoided for making historical claims. You need to gain consensus before you add them back. Possehl use the word "possible influence" and thus we should also interpret his findings that way. Accesscrawl (talk) 12:43, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

India relation with Mesopotamia

pld 43.247.43.84 (talk) 06:49, 1 October 2023 (UTC)