Talk:Indiana in the American Civil War/Archive 1

Archive 1

Reference Question

Does anyone object to this reference - http://civilwarindiana.com/role.html . The site does not site any references, but it has a wealth of civil war information that so far as I read is all accurate. I have used it as a footnote reference on one statement in the article. It also has some super great photos of Indiana regiments. They all have to be 150 years old.. I am not sure if the rules allows us to taken them though. Cool10191 (talk) 13:21, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Good Article Review

Do you think this could pass the GA review? I think it is pretty close. I am going to try to expand referencing a little more and find a bit more content before submitting it. I also want to get some info on what black hoosiers did in the war. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Charles Edward 15:49, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I think it's ready, which is why I went and nominated it. I'd like for one of my articles I started to reach GA status. Heck, this one could potentially make FA status.--Bedford ^Pray 18:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Cool. I've been trying to get history of Indiana passed for FA this week, which has let me find out just how tough that is! Me and mingusboodle been working on it for four weeks now. Thanks Bedford Charles Edward 18:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

No problem. I think the only real problem is that not every paragraph ends with a in-cite.--Bedford ^Pray 18:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I've been trying to expand the referencing today, but it's hard for me to always remember where I read something, so I am having to dig through books to find the stuff. hahah. Charles Edward 18:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Indiana in the American Civil War/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. 1st read through

1. My major concern with this article is that it needs a map or two or three. Anyone who is not well-versed on Indiana geography would find it difficult to follow parts of the article. In particular, even only 1 of the 4 "raids" articles has a map.
2. A significantly more minor point is that the images of the two monuments in the Aftermath section are both redundant and jarring: redundant because they look so similar and they are stacked up on top of each other, and jarring because they are different sizes and create a great gap of white space in the article. Madman (talk) 04:20, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
3. The lead paragraphs need to be crisper. The lead sentence does not tell us much really (details please). The last sentence of the first paragraph ("The state contributed hundreds of thousands of men, millions of dollars, and many supplies to the war effort.") is a bit disconnected with the other 2 sentences, and doesn't say much either. How much? To whom? Compare with Ohio in the Civil War.
4. The sentence "Before the war ended Indiana would contribute 208,367 men (about 15% of the state's total population and 74% of eligible men) to fight in and serve in the war." needs to be cited. Madman (talk) 03:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
5. I'm not sure that the lead image is the best face to put forward. That is, couldn't this just be any old cabin? It doesn't supply any information to the reader.
6. "Gov. Morton called up the state militia as soon as Morgan's intentions where know, more than 60,000 men came out to repel Morgan's raid." - poorly worded and the 60,000 figure needs citing. It seems high - it's equal to about 30% of Indiana soldiers.
7. "The 19th made critical contributions to some of the most important engagements including Second Battle of Bull Run (August 28, 1862), but was almost completely destroyed in the Battle of Gettysburg." The article on the 19th makes no mention of being "almost completely destroyed" there. Citation?
8. "Almost every presidential ticket between the war and World War I included one or more Hoosiers in a hope to win the support of Indiana's electorate." <- This can't be true. Only about half the Republican tickets had Hoosiers and less than half of the Democratic ones.
9. There seem to be a number of typos or poorly worded sentences:

"He had wrote a letter to "His Excellency, Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederation", in which we offered the services of a friend to sell the south superior firearms."

"When the Republicans returned to power in 1864 he was paid back and grateful state has preserved his Madison residence as historic site. "

"Over half of Hoosiers with over $100,000 lived in New Albany."

"New Albany’s robust steamboat industry in 1870, with the last steamboat built in New Albany named, appropriately, the Robert E. Lee. "

Sometimes "war" is capitalized, sometimes not.

I will review the article further once you review these matters. Thanks,Madman (talk) 00:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll begin working on maps. That will take the longest to do.--Bedford ^Pray 00:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello, in response to your points above:

1. Do you suggest a map showing the location of the raids or a map of Indiana in general?
2. I removed one of the images.
3. I redid the intro, I think it reads a bit better now.
4. If you follow the ref at the end of the next sentence and read the section Indiana's Call to arms it states about 15% of the state population was called up and aproximatly 200,000 soldiers. I have also duplicated a ref from lower in the article that will lead you a site where the exact number of soldiers is cited. The 75% of eligible men part I can remember where i read that or even if i added it.. It can be removed if a source cannot be located.
5. I changed it to the state flag and moved the cabin image to more approraite spot.
6. The figures are correct, I am sure of that. I will find a ref and reword the sentence
7. The entire Iron brigade was destroyed in the battle, will locate source.
8. should say almost every presidential "election" not ticket. will change
9. I'm not great at prose, but I will try to give the article a thorough copy edit.

Charles Edward 00:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

If you're not in a hurry, I can work on a map or two. Madman (talk) 03:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

When I did my master's thesis on Morgan's Raid, I made maps both of Hines Raid and Morgan's. I took pictures of them recently, and are on my old hard drive. If my brother can retrieve them for me tomorrow, I'll put them on here. However, they will be in black and white, unless I use MS Paint to color them.--Bedford ^Pray 03:30, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

2nd Read Through

There are still quite a few typos and poorly worded sentences and many uncapitalized words (e.g. "south for South" and "democrats" for "Democrats") in this article, so many that I felt the need to copyedit the article myself. I'm not quite done with it, but will finish shortly. I think that the citations are nearly good enough (I think there are a couple of notes) - one of which says that tariffs increased the profits on Indiana's exports. This needs some explaining since tariffs are taxes on imports.

The maps are a little hazy, but worthwhile. Madman (talk) 05:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

3rd Read Through

1. There are still some clumsily worded sentences and typos:

"Indianapolis hosted to Camp Morton, an military prison for captured Confederates soldiers."

"The home front only experienced one significant conflict that caused a brief panic in the state." (So, it experienced significant conflicts that didn't cause a brief panic?)

". . . Cincinnati’s (The Western Theater HQ) taste . . . "

"Two Lafayette residents were captured during the war and sent to Union prisoner camps until one swore allegiance to the Union, the other was freed with the help of his family."

"The shift of population northward was accelerated as new industry began to develop around the great lakes and the railroad depots."

2. Needs citation: "Almost every family in the state contributed multiple members to the war." This just seems beyond belief. That means that, what, 80% of "families" -- however that is defined -- sent more than 1 man to the war? Maybe "family" should be defined, too.
3. Untrue: "Over 60% of Indiana's regiments were mustered and trained in Indianapolis, with the rest being trained in Southern Indiana at New Albany and Jeffersonville." Camp Anderson in LaPorte Co, for example, was used in 1863 and 1864 to train Indiana Union volunteers of the 127th, 128th, and 129th regiments. (see here)
4. I am still concerned about a map. Someone who is unfamiliar with Indiana geography will be lost with all of the placenames. A nice map showing the placenames (e.g. Indianapolis, New Albany, Cincinnati, Louisville, and more) is really needed to help our readers.
Other than these items, I think this article is Good. Madman (talk) 04:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

1. I've fixed the sentances you cited. 2. I added a cite for the statement and reworded it a bit to be more what the reference says. It is pluasable - 170,000 households in Indiana in those years and 210,000 soldiers in the war. It was Total War. 3. I just removed "the rest were trained in southern indiana". 60% were definatly trained in Indianaopolis per the source. I do have another source that says the rest were trained in the southern part of the state - which makes sense. Individual companies may have been mustered in other places around the state - but the statement says "regiments". Regiments were made out of the companies mustered around the state and assembled in the primary camps. 4. I will locate and add a state map with said locations. Charles Edward 12:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Final Review GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

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Overall a thorough and effective article, touching on all aspects of Indiana life during the Civil War.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   Good, and much better than earlier. Needs to be a bit smoother for an "A" or "Featured Article"

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   Good citations. Broad scope.

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   The addition of the map is much needed. A photo of a civil war soldier (not a General) would be very useful to set the tone.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Good job.

Maps

As recommended by the GA Review, I added the two maps from my Master's Thesis onto the page. I hope they don't look too bad.--Bedford ^Pray 19:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I think they look fine. I moved the images around a little and took off the one of the cabin so it dont look too cluttered. Charles Edward 20:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I just uploaded this . I am not sure if we can use it though.. Maybe violation of copyright. I scanned in from a CJ article from 1993. Maybe we can use it under fair use? But I am not sure. Charles Edward 13:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok - I "stole" a map off the commons and modified it. I added the raids from Bedford's maps and the other cities mentioned in the article, plus a couple. Let me know what you think. Charles Edward 13:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Looks good, except that we might want to place Newburgh. Also, we might eventually mention Vincennes or Terre Haute in the article.--Bedford ^Pray 14:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I will add those on and upload a new version. Charles Edward 15:24, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, the map looks great. Could you increase the width of the green and red lines? It's a bit hard to tell them apart. I think it would also be nice to remove the yellow interstate lines as well (being anarchronistic and all), but that may be difficult given the origin of the map. Good work, Madman (talk) 03:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I made it bigger and enlarged the city dots too. Charles Edward 15:54, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The names of several towns along the Ohio River are situated right over the river. Do you think that they could be jiggled around so that they aren't?

I also believe that a photo or two of actual soldiers (not generals or officers) would be useful to set the tone of the article.

These certainly did not keep the article from making GA! Good work, Madman (talk) 04:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Lafayette POWs removed

I removed this phrase "Two Lafayette residents were captured during the war and sent to Union prisoner camps. They were released after one swore allegiance to the Union, the other was freed with the help of his family.", as only a link I found five years ago backed it up. I'd be grateful for anyone who can find a better source, so it can return.--Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 07:01, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

New map

I made a new map and put up. I think it looks a bit better than the last. I can restore the old. Let me know if you don't like it! :) Charles Edward 21:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I like it, but you made two errors. I put them on your talk page.--Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 21:28, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Also, it would help for you to add Richmond and Jeff.--Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 21:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Done! Thanks for pointing that out. Charles Edward 21:46, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Looks great. There's only two things you should do, and they are optional. Maybe shrinking New Albany so it's not so much bigger than Jeff. Also, Scottsburg did not exist until 1873; maybe replace with Lexington, the county seat of Scott County at the time (which is why it was visited by Morgan).--Gen. Bedford ^{his Forest} 21:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Done that also! Charles Edward 22:13, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Update a couple of incomplete citations

There is a footnote that cites "H. Miller, p. 48" and one that cites "Morton, pp. 54-55" that are not listed in the references section. Please provide the full citations and add it to the references section. Rosalina523 (talk) 17:34, 24 November 2015 (UTC)