Talk:Imperial Crypt

Article merged: See old talk-page here

Would anyone happen to have a list of ALL whose remains rest in the Kaisergruft?

Yes, I'm adding one to comply with your request.--StanZegel 28 June 2005 19:24 (UTC)

Dates following names

When the person has an article in the Wikipedia, I have generally not put the month and day of his birth and death, but only the years. For some of the more obscure persons (often wives) who do not have an Article, I have put the month and day (if I could find them) so that they will be available if someone later decides to create a stub article for that person.--StanZegel 28 June 2005 22:09 (UTC)

Article Size

This is admittedly an article longer than 32k bytes, but I hope it can be kept together. The guidance on article size indicates that the 32k is based upon old technology, and the determing factor is utility, especially when lists are involved.

The subscripts make it possible for the reader to easily determine the relationships between the various persons, so keeping all together on the page is very useful. If it is ever broken up so that each Vault is a separate article, all of the subscripts should be turned into hyperlinks that go to the appropriate vault page. The main hyperlink in the vault listing should also show the range of subscript numbers. That is a lot of work to do, and will make things harder on the reader. --StanZegel 3 July 2005 05:00 (UTC)

I suggest removing all descriptive biographical information from individuals who already have Wikipedia articles. I.e. leave names, dates, and family connections (son/daughter of), but remove other information in the hopes that people will just click to the full biographical article. Noel S McFerran July 3, 2005 23:37 (UTC)

I agree that is the best solution. But on the emperors, even though they have articles, I'm thinking an occasional sentence (e.g. it is THIS Leopold that the Leopoldstrakt is named after) helps the reader place them in context, and the clue may attact them to click on the full biographical article. What do you think of that?--StanZegel 4 July 2005 02:48 (UTC)

The creation of the section ==Persons Buried Here== is in preparation for moving ==The Vaults== to a separate article e.g. "Imperial Crypt Vaults" which would bring this article down to around 32K. The Vaults article would still be about twice that size, but that is OK for lists as I understand the policy because the 32k is more associated with readability than technology.

Before this can be done, more work needs to be done on the charts, then the {{biohead}} and {{bioxref}} templates must be reworked to deal with linkage to a different article. After that is done, we could even break out each Vault into a separate article if that ever becomes necessary.--StanZegel 14:15, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Caution on body count

Be careful not to assume that the highest index number (147) is the count of the number of persons buried in the Kapuzinergruft.

The index number is the same number assigned on the Kaisergruft web site, and they usually count the number of containers, not the quantity of bodies.

In some cases, the container is only the heart because the body is buried elsewhere (e.g. numbers 9, 24 and 34).

In some cases both are here, in separately-numbered containers (e.g. number 123 and (number purposely omitted in article) 24. But the Kaisergruft does not always assign a separate number (e.g. number 117).

Sometimes a single sarcophagus contains more than one body (e.g. number 84).

And there is always the situation of number 91.

Because they do not truly reflect the body count, the index numbers are of value only for their purpose: unique identification among identical or similarly-named occupants. --StanZegel 4 July 2005 01:04 (UTC)

Article title

The present article title "Kapuzinergruft" is not the standard way of referring to this site in English. Normally it is called the "Capuchin Crypt", but since there are a number of sites with this name, I suggest "Capuchin Crypt, Vienna". Noel S McFerran July 4, 2005 04:09 (UTC)

Absent famous Habsburgs

This section is potentially huge. There are well over a hundred Habsburgs buried elsewhere. One really doesn't expect in an article about one cemetery, to find information about all the people NOT buried there.

I suggest that this information be moved from this article to the article "Habsburg" where it could be summarized with a list of Habsburg burial sites in addition to the Capuchin Crypt in Vienna. Noel S McFerran July 4, 2005 04:17 (UTC)

I agree that it certainly should not be here if it becomes a catch-all. The reason I started it was that we are carefully trying on each entry to include at least the male parentage, but when the father of a Habsburg buried here is not also buried here, but the grandfather is, then there is a gap to be bridged. Otherwise the gap prevents the reader of this article from working upwards along the chain. I did not intend this section to ever become a listing of every Habsburg buried elsewhere, just the missing paternal links and a few of the really really famous ones that folks may be wondering about or even expecting to be here. (I don't think we can ignore Franz Ferdinand, for example.)

If you think it better to move the pre-1632 folks, I wouldn't resist that because I like your idea of a summarization of Habsburg burial sites in the main Habsburg family article. (I'd keep Maria of Burgundy with that group because of the importance of her marriage into the family.) You may decide to keep a few of them here too: it is hard to determine how the crown got from number 2 to number 27 unless there is linkage to x527 and x578, and x578 needs x540 to get back to x503, the common ancestor. x500 and before were just for orientation and can safely disappear, expecially if you decide to do that summary.

I wonder if we gave this section of this article a more restrictive name if that might head off some or most the problem?--StanZegel 4 July 2005 07:10 (UTC)

This Name is too Short

Imperial Crypt of what? Wiki policy is that the names of articles should be able to stand alone without the context of what links to it. If no one objects in a few days, I'll move this article to the name "Imperial crypt in Vienna." --JeffW 00:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the name could be a bit short. In German it is though simply known as "Kaisergruft", no "in Wien" or "in Vienna" in the official name. I would suggest "Imperial Crypt, Vienna" in that case, which would be in compliance with Wikipedia location format. Gryffindor 09:34, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Reminder

This article is a little large. Shorten it up by reducing images. --66.218.11.111 23:41, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Carl Ludwig of Austria (1918-2007), son from Karl I. (1887-1922) and Zita (1892-1989)

He died in 2007 and was buried in the Imperial Crypt. But I don't know exactly in which room. --AndreaMimi (talk) 17:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

He is in the Chapel, near his mother Zita. My original files for the charts have been lost, and I have not yet had the time to recreate the chart that would show him. --StanZegel (talk) 06:27, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The coordinates need the following fixes:

• Write here

48°12′20″N 16°22′11″E[[File:[1]]] 193.254.40.114 (talk) 21:21, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Declined. Coordinates appear to be correct. If you still think they're wrong, please explain your objection more fully and remove the "tlc|" from the geodata-check tag. — TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 17:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Duplicate pics

Why does this photo of the sarcophagi of Franz Joseph I, his wife Elisabeth and son Rudolf appear twice on the article page? — Sca (talk) 22:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

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