Talk:Ico/Archive 1

Archive 1

Style

If every major section, the first sentence contains something like Ico, a boy with horns. I would understand if this was repeat once, but the epitaph is repeated throughout the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.9.229.177 (talk) 20:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

There isn't going to be an ICO (well not for a few years at least).

The game the makers of ICO are currently making is called Wanda and Colossus. It looks like it will retain many of the features which made ICO the favourite it became.

It's not actually going to be called that over here; that's just the literal translation of the Japanese title. The developers have stated (for example, in Edge's expose on the title) that they'll be changing it for other locations. As for retaining features, I wouldn't go that far; the successor is going to be far more energetic in its platform navigation. Sockatume 21:54, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Should we add the credits of the game ?

Is it a good idea to add the game credits for Ico ? On http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/data/367472.html, we have the complete list. I wait for your opinion. Or you can do it yourself, if you decide to. - 17:36, 30/01/2006.

Added year

I added the release year of Ico. Though I am not quite sure about it. I'll check and improve it soon. - 17:26, 30/01/2006. OK, got it. I found the complete release dates on GameFAQs.com, if you want to check http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/data/367472.html - 17:28, same day.

Plot Summary

I think this is currently written with overdramatization and even some overinterpretation as far as an encyclopedia goes. Yorda's motives for not hopping on the boat, for example, are open to interpretation. You guys agree? Poiso 00:19, 9 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Dr Ian 16:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I also agree, I was planning to do it sometime, but I was afraid of spoiling the story too much. -- Psi edit 20:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Name

I'm pretty sure the game and hero are actually called Ico; I don't recall it being referred to in the near-acronymic manner in any of the press materials. Sockatume 21:54, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

No, it's "ICO". This is how it is (not just the logo) on the PlayStation 2 official website as well as the game's official website found here. K1Bond007 20:01, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not convinced myself; all I could find in that site regarding the name was the Ico logo as it appears on the box. Game promo sites have a tendency to block-caps the game titles anyway. Given that the title of the game is the name of the hero, I reckon that the proper noun Ico is the correct spelling. Sockatume 15:34, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It's ICO. See http://ps2.ign.com/objects/014/014833.html ~ Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 11:02, 2005 July 14 (UTC)

It's not an acronym that stands for anything, it's a trademark. According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks):

"Capitalize trademarks, as with proper names"

"Follow our usual text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment" :::--Poiuyt Man ^talk 08:53, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

To clarify: "Capitalize trademarks, as with proper names" means to capitalize the first letter only, not all of them. The stylized logo for the game is written as ICO. The actual title itself is Ico. Druff 14:13, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Let us use "Ico" for the title. We can add an article talking about the frequent capitalization of the game's name.

Improved

• Screenshots
• External Links

--Mateusc 04:47, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Various online references that support the "ee-ko" pronunciation of Ico (you might have to Ctrl+F on some of these): [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12]

This forum topic discusses the "eye-ko" versus "ee-ko" pronunciation: [13]

--Poiuyt Man (talk) 12:28, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There's a tiny little edit-war going on right now, and I'd like to point out that besides the pages claiming "ee-ko" Poiuytman has pointed out, there is also the attributes of Japanese vowels, where the 'i' makes an 'ee' sound. If it were "eye-ko," wouldn't they have spelled it "aico?" -- Sarranduin ^(Talk)

It wouldn't necessarily be spelled "Aico"; imagine you were trying to pronounce "Icon" but changed the last phonetic syllable from "on" to "oh". I see it as more of a translation issue. I'm from Australia, and up until recently I'd never heard anyone say "ee-ko", and that includes game store clerks and the like. I think it should have both pronunciations listed due to the widespread (although incorrect) use of "eye-ko". --Rikkyc (talk) 13:42, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

looks more like "ih-ko", really AliceSKD (talk) 02:19, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Sales

I keep hearing this game described as a flop, but it sold 700,000 copies. I'll remove the mythology surrounding its 'poor sales' unless I'm wrong.

I added this back to the text, but specified the sales judgment as referring to North America, where one magazine cover proclaimed Ico as "The best game you'll never play." I believe the same was also true for the UK and Europe, but I only know about North America. I've never heard the 700K number and would be curious what territories it covers, what price points, etc. Its having won so many awards is already well covered in the article. Coll7 23:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

ICO vs. Ico

There's no need to capitalize all of the letters in "Ico" any moreso than any other video game title. After all, one doesn't make it a point to type "SUPER MARIO BROS." or "FINAL FANTASY" or "METAL GEAR SOLID 2 SONS OF LIBERTY." When a title also serves as a logo, it is almost always formatted as such in all capital letters. However, this need not extend to commentary and discussion. The common tendancy to mistakenly capitalize all three letters as ICO is likely due to the fact that many people have been conditioned by common three letter acronyms such as USA, FBI, IRS, CIA, IRA, DOS, ESP, BBC, CBS, etc.

It should be noted that Sony itself often capitalizes the entire title as "ICO" in their official literature regarding the game. Some may believe this legitimizes the practice. However, it is probably due to Sony US following Sony of Japan's lead, though Sony of Japan was in error.

In the interest of Wiki standardization, I vote for the conversion of the root of this article from "ICO (video game)" to "Ico (video game)". I'd do it myself right now, but I have to admit... I don't know how. Druff 17:56, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

OK, now I do know how to do it. I hope it doesn't cause too much of an uproad with the CAPS LOCK DIEHARDS. ;) Druff 19:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

It's ICO. The official name of all PS2 games are written on the side of the game box. On the side of ICO's box, it says "ICO" in all capital letters. It's not just the logo on the front. BZero 19:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

You can't judge by the logo capitalization. Otherwise, you'd also need to have GRAN TURISMO 3: A-spec. Lots of logos are in all caps. Ace of Sevens 16:58, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

No, I didn't mean the logos on the front cover, I meant the titles on the side of the game box. Here, I took a picture to show you what I mean: http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4421/bilde130oa7.jpg BZero 18:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

What exactly is that a picture of? I thought you were talking about the spines of the covers. What region do you live in? Ace of Sevens 17:19, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

So, "spine" is the word I was looking for? Anyway, yes, that's what I was talking about. That's not the logo, that's just the title of the game, the way it's supposed to be written. As you can see, Gran Turismo is written in lower case on the spine of the cover, unlike the front of the cover. ICO is written in all caps. And I live in Europe.BZero 17:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Europe has ugly spines compared to the US and Japan, then. Most regions put the logo there, not a plain-text rendering. Anyway, do you have any sources that these are the official capitilizations rather than just whatever the localization team came up with? Ace of Sevens 18:48, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I happen to have the game imported from Japan and the spine has the title written both in English and Japanese, the English title being in all caps like in the pic above. I can provide my own photo if necessary. Tani unit 02:03, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

In Japanese, short words or names are occasionally capitalized simply because caps look better than lower case when combined with Japanese text, since it makes everything about equal height. To cite a video game example, take a look at the Simple 2000 series. If you check the Japanese version of the page you'll notice it's written in caps, just as it is on the case of any Simple Series game. It seems obvious enough that we shouldn't write it as SIMPLE 2000 SERIES in English. Likely the only reason Ico's caps were not removed in the English versions is because Ico is not a real word in English, and as Druff mentioned one year ago, people are used to three letter acronyms, so Sony US probably just decided to copy the Japanese version directly. LeeWilson 13:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Haven't got any examples in my collection, but I've definitely seen a few (elegant European) spines in the shops that use random uppercasing at the whim of the box designer. Wikipedia style manual says to use "standard English text formatting and capitalization", anyway. --McGeddon 14:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

... I noticed DYNASTY WARRIORS 2 on a friend's shelf the other day. --McGeddon 21:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Just going to add that my European Final Fantasy XII has its title fritten as FINAL FANTASY XII on the spine, and Soul Calibur III is writen as Soulcalibur III, so, European game boxes are not that best source for anything. 81.227.124.101 18:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's convention is to write it normally ("Ico") whether the trademark is held as all-caps ("ICO") or not, since that's what normal English-speakers do.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 18:50, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Shoudln't that apply to the Soundtrack, too? --WakiMiko (talk) 01:59, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I just wanted to put this somewhere, although it has nothing to do with the title, specifically. I had never heard of Ico before today, but in regards to the cover art: I saw the EUR/JPN cover art first, at the top of the page, and I could tell right away that it was a strong character leading a character who was not so strong. This, without even enlarging the image. I could also tell the strong character was taking them both away from the castle. Reminds me of so many prince/princess stories. Anyway, the North American box art is pitiful by comparison, and I felt that way even before I read the caption for the North American box art. Just another example of how poorly so many things Japanese translate into English, I think. 24.237.190.24 (talk) 17:19, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Story and Characters section

I added a story and characters section similar to the ones found in the Shadow of the Colossus article. Feel free to correct, add and spell-check it (I am not a native English speaker so the 'flow' of the text might be a bit akward at times). Felsir 13:25, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

CD-ROM format?

The US and Japanese versions were also released in CD-ROM format, while the European version came on a DVD-ROM.

Wha? How can a PS2 game be released on a CD-ROM? Garrett Albright 16:04, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Games can be released on a CD-ROM for PS2, but this is rare (it was mostly used for early games in the PS2 life cycle). Those discs were blue (while PS1 discs are black) yaz0r 15:11, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Novelization

It appears that Japanese writer Miyuki Miyabe has written a book based on Ico after having played the game, according to the interview on the official page (in Japanese). The Japanese Miyabe article also mentions a book named "ICO －霧の城－" (castle in the fog or some such). I don't really know Japanese and googling in English yields broken links. Maybe this info would be worth adding to the article, if someone has the language skills and/or sources required? - 12:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, I might investigate it later. -- Psi edit 21:23, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

This book was released in 2003 in Japan.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. Please don't forget to add the dab notice. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 13:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Ico (video game) → Ico … Rationale: There's only one article called 'Ico', as far as I can see, but Ico is currently a redirect to the ICO disambiguation page, which makes no sense to me - the video game was originally at Ico, but someone moved it because it didn't 'deserve' to be there. So, I'd like it moved and then we can add a see also to the ICO disambiguation page. Note that there was a small argument over whether the game should be capitalised as ICO or Ico, on its talk page, but it seems resolved and it definitely seems 'Ico' is correct. --Fuzzie (talk) 23:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

1. Support, obviously. --Fuzzie (talk) 23:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
2. Support Deserves a lot of respect Coll7 23:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
3. Support, no reason not to do that. -- Psi edit 00:53, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
4. Support. Olessi 00:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Genre Puzzle?

The game is almost entirely centered around solving puzzles. I think the genre should be Action-adventure / Puzzle. Sure, puzzle games usually look like Tetris, but I don't think that rules this game out. --ScarletSpiderDave 08:49, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Decided to "Be bold" in my editing and change it myself. --ScarletSpiderDave 13:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, it is very much a puzzle game aswell.--Soetermans 13:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. Games with this kind of puzzle are called adventure games. Ace of Sevens 18:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with Ace Disagreeing. He's looking at the game as if it were Crash Bandicoot or Tomb Raider or something. Its a totally different type of puzzle-solving than Crash, or Tomb Raider. Its not about jumping and timing, its about figuring out how to get from place-to-place without losing sight of Yorda. Ittan 23:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you're talking about platfroming it seems, Ittan, games with this kind of puzzles are, as Ace of Sevens said, are usually called adventure games (or action-adventure, to not confuse it with traditional adventure games, Monkey Island and such). Other games of the some kind of adventure games as Ico are things like Zelda.81.227.124.101 18:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

It's an Action-Adventure game. Adventure games are centered around solving puzzles and exploration. Me5000 15:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The Brothers Grimm

(plot spoilers for Ico and The Brothers Grimm)

Anyone notice the similarity in the plot of Ico and The Brothers Grimm? Just like in Ico, a queen gathered a number of children and sealed them in sarcophagi, for the purpose of using the girls as spell components in a youth extending spell. The scene in which one of the brothers climbed to the roof of the queen's tower also had distinctly Ico tones. Is it possible The Brothers Grimm was partially inspired by this game? ~ Eidako 12:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Doubtful. It's more likely they were both inspried by Elizabeth Bathory and various fairy tales. Ace of Sevens 09:20, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hrm. Elizabeth Bathory's alleged vanity, consumption of blood, and punishment by being bricked in matches up with The Brothers Grimm, but I don't see anything relating to the ritualistic sealing in tombs. The theme seems too specific for two seperate mediums to have independantly created in a five year span, so if one wasn't aware of the other, there must be an unspecified fairy tale linking them in this regard. Yet I'm not aware of any such myths; the best examples I can think of are Egyptian burial, Voodoo practices, or possibly a universal allusion to death. The Brothers Grimm instance fringes on Sleeping Beauty, but it doesn't seem a likely inspiration for Ico's. Thoughts on the matter? ~ Eidako 12:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

It's possible the film was inspired by Ico. However, the themes and plotlines in both Ico and The Brothers Grimm are very old and classical. Given that The Brothers Grimm is based on a vast variety of old fables and fairytales, it is no wonder that there are some similarities. In fact, when the Grimm brothers compiled the fairy tales and fables, from many different cultures and nations, they found that some fables themselves were similar to fables in other cultures. Just the mysterious way humans are, maybe? But isn't Ico great?!144.139.119.24 (talk) 06:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

need some help with SotC section

the last sentence in the first paragraph doesn't flow quite right.

the second paragraph I think can be combined, but for the life of me, I can't seem to make a good sentence, that gets both sentences main ideas down to pat.Merc25 09:31, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

musical credits

I believe that credits of the in-game music isn't standard. It seems the person who created it, more or less copied the way it was printed. I'll change it into a normal list. If anyone disagrees, please says so.--Soetermans 11:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Someone has changed it back, without argumenting why. What now?--Soetermans 09:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

US box art?

Someone could track down a pic of the (somewhat ugly) US box art and include it.. SeriousCat 02:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

It's already in the article - further down. Megapixie 02:12, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Oops, sorry. SeriousCat 07:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Copyright infringement

According to this site, Ico violated the intellectual property rights of a free software programmer by using his GPL'd code in Ico without relicensing the necessary components of Ico under the GPL. SteveSims 21:27, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Also slashdotted now. Code is libarc. - 220.237.19.227 (talk) 12:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

This should be mentioned in the article, right? --Ysangkok (talk) 15:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Story Cleanup

Although its decently written, its approach seems to be something more that would be more fitting on a fansite; the amount of detail seems way too excessive, and hastily written. It also ignores some of the more thoughtful aspects of the story, or the ideas its attempting to convey.

Anyone but myself think it could do with major revision / tidying?(Words of Ivory 15:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC))

Done. Please improve this; there is no part of me that thinks this is perfect. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:15, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Isn't there some kind of spoiler tag that could be used? My apologies if saw them only on a wikipedia based site, but the ending is given away in the article, so it seems appropriate if there are. 75.155.252.198 (talk) 11:20, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there is such a tag anymore; a commonly accepted guideline states that they are largely unnessesary on Wikipedia, especially in a plot section. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 04:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Influences

Nobody had played out of this world?(eric chahi, amiga), "another world" in europe 1rst influnce of ICO! play it! Im not english, sorry for my message by gerkrt

Is Yorda blind?

I've heard from a number of sources that Yorda is blind, but I don't see anything about that in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.40.5.69 (talk) 20:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Probably because noone has provided a reliable source for the claim that she is blind. If it's true, then we need a reliable source, which means no forums. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:00, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

When she jumps across gaps, you would think she would need to be able to see to do it. But then again, I have no idea what it's like to be blind. And given that she just stands around a lot of the time, it could make sense.144.139.119.24 (talk) 06:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

There are several instances of Yorda running towards or pointing at things, she is most certainly not blind. This idea probably arose from the fact that her AI is incomplete in the US version, I believe she really does just stand around doing nothing in that version. Crumplecorn (talk) 11:55, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

WPVG Assessment

I am bringing the article up to B-Class with Mid-importance. The article seems very well-written, but it still has some issues before going up to GA or higher:

• Consider splitting the lead into three paragraphs. Look at the April WPVG newsletter for some good pointers on using a three-paragraph lead. Make sure the information in the lead is either already mentioned and sourced elsewhere in the article, or else reference it in the lead itself. For instance, I couldn't find in the rest of the article saying that the game was reprinted in 2006. That means you need to either reference that with a reliable source or cut it out from the lead. For this, see WP:LEAD for information regarding citations in the lead; this is especially important when going for GA and higher.
• The plot and gameplay sections are completely unreferenced. Include sources that can verify the aspects of the gameplay as well as the plot aspects. The sources at hand may already contain good information in which you can verify. Don't be afraid to break out the manual if necessary to explain an important aspect in gameplay.
• The tracklisting of the game's album seems to provide too much detail. I think it's better that it be left out and using prose to describe the album. Remember, sources are also needed to verify the album information if you wish to keep that.
• The development and reception sections have been done very well. I cannot find anything to say at this moment.

So work on those points that I have mentioned above. You also may want to consider bringing the article to good article nomination before heading for A-Class, as A-Class seems to gravitate more towards the already-strict FA standards as contrasted to the GA standards. Good job! MuZemike (talk) 23:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Date error

"A novelization of the game titled ICO: Castle of Mist (ICO -霧の城-, ICO -Kiri no Shiro-?) was released in Japan in 1994." According to the development section, the game concept wouldn't be conceived until 1997. Perhaps this is supposed to be 2004? Teemu08 (talk) 18:09, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Slight issue with reception...

Now I know that its been made featured and usually means nothing else needs to be changed, AND I know that reception sections are a touchy subject to some, notably those who edited it most and are usually fans but when compared to previous featured game articles before it (including SotC), there are very few cons, all of which seem to be followed and overshadowed by more praise. I'm NOT being biased, a troll or a fanboy and I'm NOT suggesting, let alone demanding that add more cons than its worth, but 90% whereas the article comes off as 99%. Perhaps one cons on its own not follwed up by more praise could help with balance if only slightly as the rest of the article is very good and congrats to those who helped. Stabby Joe (talk) 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I looked for cons way back, and just could not find much beyond length and combat lack-of-difficulty. I worked backwards from the lowest scores to find anything besides those (keeping to reliable sources) and even two of the lowest RS sources, Gamespot's ([14]) and GameRevolution;s ([15]) do not give any other hints of why they praised it so much but gave it a lower score, with only cons being the above mentioned. The only hint of another con would be the frustration of some puzzles that the "Four Fat Chicks" review gives but they are not a reliable source and none of the other RS review sources agree with this (if anything, this is hinted at the statement about rewarding players that work through the game on their own). Mind you this was back in 2001 so scales may have been very different. (also, fwiw, I opted not to use a review table for this game, as it is not a requirement, to avoid relying too much on that as a crutch.) --MASEM (t) 15:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thats fair enough, yet I'll look into some others I mean after all there are a lot on GR and MC. Stabby Joe (talk) 15:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, how about this, a direct comment on the games length from a critic then followed by the current X-Play comment since as it stands its more of an observation than an actual critical point/opinion. Stabby Joe (talk) 15:51, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Unsourced material

Is the game really considered more a piece of art than a game? By whom? Can you cite it? What about these "technical" innovations? A lot of the introduction is unsourced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.108.42.245 (talk • contribs)

The lede of the article does not need to have citations; these points are sourced in the body of the article however. See WP:LEADCITE. --MASEM (t) 17:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

What about the work of art thing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.108.42.245 (talk) 17:55, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

See the reception section; there's at least three sources there. --MASEM (t) 18:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Ending Description

I feel the description of the ending in this article is a bit misleading. Regardless of whether Ueda claims the ending is vague and it is not certain that Yorda is alive, she clearly is alive at the end of the actual game. Ico wakes up in the boat alone after the credits, and if the player takes control and runs down the shoreline, Yorda is there and wakes up, looking at Ico. Regarding why the referenced article from 1Up says what it does, it might be a misunderstanding or error. Ueda far as I know from interviews does not speak English, so mistakes in translation happen. Legitimus (talk) 20:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

We don't know if it was a dream or not; remember that the last Ico sees of Yorda is as a shadow creature; everything that happens after he's unconscious cannot be known for sure. --MASEM (t) 20:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

That description is favoring a speculation over what can be objectively seen. What you see on the screen is her waking up, and the current text of this article appears to deliberately obfuscate that. Observation should trump artistic interpretation.Legitimus (talk) 14:26, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

But even if you take out the dream and go strictly by what one sees of Yorda: one moment she is a shadow creature in the crumbling castle, pushing Ico away on a boat, staying behind at the castle. The next major scene, she appears as she was in the game, not in the castle. There is no narrative connection for what happened between, so without even interpretation and WP:OR, we have no idea what happened and if this is even Yorda beyond the visual appearance, how she got there from the castle, how she stopped being a shadow creature, etc. etc. What happens in those missing steps unstated, and any filling in is going to be interpretive. That's why we have sources that describe both the seen ending (Yorda being on the beach) and Ueda, the CREATOR of the game, stating its vague. That's the best we can do here on WP. --MASEM (t) 14:35, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Multiplayer?

What is the multiplayer mode listed in the infobox? I didn't find it mentioned in the article proper. --Mika1h (talk) 21:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that was there originally, but now that I google search, I've seen hits (far from RS though) about it. Its only a feature in the EU/JP versions and require finishing the game. Will look more but it appears legit. --MASEM (t) 21:46, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Difficulty differences

"The North American version of Ico had, along with a removal of bonus material, a lower difficulty than other versions. Notably, a few puzzles were shortened by chopping out the tricky bits, and the enemies were a lot slower and less aggressive - only spawning if you left Yorda in a different room and at scripted points." http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DifficultyByRegion

This being a featured article, maybe it would be more complete with that being mentioned. Just a thought. Twipley (talk) 00:13, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

There are no reliable sources that make that claim. We can cite the additional features in the nonNA versions, but never have seen the difficulty issue addressed reliably. --MASEM (t) 00:20, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Default page for ICO?

Surprising an old video game I never heard of is the page at /wiki/ico. You’d think it be the .ico file format or disambiguation page. --X883 (talk) 00:06, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

North American box art

Would anyone be opposed to including the North American box art lower down in the article, since it is cited for its lack of success and could serve as educational for readers to understand what the article is describing? - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:13, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

• This is a great idea. The game's poor sales in the states are primarily due to the awful cover chosen over the beautiful one shown in the article. Go for it. 66.207.23.59 (talk) 08:18, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
• Has anyone ever made the claim that the box art might have been due to a perceived need for Ico to be less Asian? That would be interesting reading--184.21.215.174 (talk) 06:16, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Suggested sources

For "Reception": [16], [17]. Hula Hup (talk) 17:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't have time for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ico&diff=509555357&oldid=508996544

Please if you care so much; discuss these edits.

I was just trying to help Wikipedia appear more cogent. The original caption says the element randomly elaborated upon in the caption had either influenced or coincidentally had also appeared in many games since. A) the comment is ancillary. B) very few games use the lighting techniques in Ico. There are two techniques that qualify. One is "bloom lighting", which is an effect that is only used when looking at the sun in Ico. It does not appear at all in the captioned image. The other is desaturated colour. Which is really not an effect, but an esthetic. The colours are somewhat desaturated in the image. But only because of the dust in the air. The outdoor areas are over saturated, as you can see on the platform that Ico (the character) is standing on. Very few games deploy over saturation.

The original caption reads "soft lighting". The only remaining thing Ico does is per vertex shadows, and a blurred stickman shadow effect that is so rare I have personally only seen it in Ico. Vertex based shadows have been out of fashion for a very long time. I won't go into the history of it. But static such shadows have not been used since the PS2. It would probably be better if games did use the technique, because it makes very nice looking games. But most games prefer uglier techniques because they are considered more realistic.

And now if someone reads this talk page they can learn a little something about Ico. FYI: I can single handedly program a game to do everything Ico does. --184.21.215.174 (talk) 06:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

WP:V and WP:RS. We go with what sources say, and not our own knowledge. Sources say Ico led games development with soft and bloom lighting, even if you feel it doesn't have that. (Also, bloom lighting is more than just what the WP article says it is, based on looking at many additional sources around the net. It's not just when light comes from near-directly behind an object to cause the bleed effect, but any sort of unfocused edges due to lighting).

Also, the caption was asked for during the review of this article for FAC. It helps to justify the inclusion of the screenshot to show the soft lighting technique in the game, which is again a sourcable fact.

Also be aware, you have reached the 3RR limit. You should have started this message after the first revert; randomly removing text that can be sourced is generally considered vandalism. --MASEM (t) 06:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations, you lose at life :(

Sourced facts are not actual facts, much less when common sense is trumped. There's nothing wrong with a picture of a ground breaking game in an article about said game. Please just leave it at that. It makes Wikipedia look ridiculous. Please continue this discussion here. I was just trying to help. I give up. Ico only has one bloom lighting effect; nothing else remotely close. There is nothing visually special about the captioned image. And a caption should be about 1 thing. Not 2 unrelated things. Think about it <sigh> --184.21.215.174 (talk) 08:18, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Again, we as editors cannot introduce new facts, even if correct, into articles, we have to use what sources say. Sources say the game uses bloom lighting, and even if you feel there's only one application of it, that's not appropriate to include, particularly since its clear by common sense there is some bloom lighting in the game. But arguably the picture used doesn't appear to have obvious bloom lighting, which is why I changed it to "soft lighting" which, again, is still sourced, and that's definitely in the picture. And just because the rendering tricks used in a ten-year old game can be easily done by yourself doesn't nullify that at the time, that stuff was revolutionary. There's also no requirement that captions should only be about one thing, particularly with non-free media. If it suits multiple purposes, we use it for multiple purposes. --MASEM (t) 13:46, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

For the record, my original intention was to make the caption appear more professional. After years of reading Time I've never seen an image with a caption touching on two unrelated things. What was meant by "soft light" was unclear. Taken literally games always included soft lights, because hard lights are more difficult to do. And there is no grounds for Ico's presentation being influential, as there is still after so many years no modern game that looks anything like Ico. There might be some low budget games, but the only game that really looks like Ico is probably SOTC. And to a lesser extent something like King's Field IV. It's just a baseless claim not backed up by the sources (which was not originally there)

Of course I could not have imagined that the caption was a thin justification for having an image at all! Wikipedia turns off so many people by making so little sense and having no mechanism to police its marauders. I only started editing lately because my IP address scheme has changed. So I do not feel so naked; as in carrying every change you've ever made on your sleeve. Yikes! --184.21.215.174 (talk) 02:34, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

I am pretty sure the "influence" line can only refer to bloom lighting. There is none in the image. The following image found in one of the sources (that mentions the influence of bloom effects) is better: http://www.1up.com/media/01/0/4/2/lg/072.jpg <img src="http://www.1up.com/media/01/0/4/2/lg/072.jpg" /> however to say that Ico influenced games with respect to bloom is ridiculous. It was just the first or one of the first games to be able to pull it off. Largely due to the rest of the game being pretty simple, and probably the PS2 had some exotic hardware for the time. I would be shocked if bloom effects had not been in use in CGI for a long time. It's even visible in the ancient mockups the designer did for Ico that can be found on the HD remaster discs as extras now that I think about it. It's strange putting so much time and energy into expunging something. I gotta give up now--184.21.215.174 (talk) 03:11, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Plot errors

Ico loses his horns during his fight with the Queen one at a time as he is thrown against the wall. Currently it states that he loses his horns due to falling debris. This is incorrect. I can see that earlier revisions had stated how he loses his horns correctly, but at some point it was changed. Many YouTube "let's play" videos of Ico show this in action. Superpope (talk) 22:11, 28 March 2016 (UTC)