Talk:Ice Capades/Archive 1

Dispute on accuracy

Some person is sending emails to the Foundation saying that what this article says about the origins of Ice Capades is untrue. Apparently, whatever this person writes gets reverted. Since neither this person nor this article provide sources, I put up the "disputed" and the "lack of sources" banners. David.Monniaux 22:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I assume the dispute is in reference to this revision which asserts that the founder of Ice Capades was Peter A. Tyrrell instead of John Harris. The only Google hit I could come up with for Tyrrell and Ice Capades is here, where he is listed as the "booking representative" for the 1941 show, while Harris is listed as president. John Harris is additionally cited as the show's founder here and here. I can't really consider any of these sources as definitive -- but at least there are readily available sources saying Harris founded the show, and none saying that Tyrrell did, so I reverted the change. Of course there may be offline sources (books? old newspaper or magazine articles?) to support the Tyrrell version of the story, so perhaps the person doing the complaining could provide specific references instead? Dr.frog 18:17, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

First post by User:Peter A. Tyrrell Jr.

Specific references: by [peter A. Tyrrell Jr.

Below is a copy of my fathers biography in the National Cylopedia of American Biography, where this reliable referance work describes that Pete Tyrrell was Business Manager, General Manager and President of Ice Capades in 1940 and how he started the first showing of Capades in New Orleans.

COPIED FROM NATIONAL CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY vol 57 pp 297-298 [with paragraph notes in brackets added] Note: brackets changed to sub-headings by BlueMoonlet (t/c) 19:02, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

His Early Years

TYRRELL, Peter Aloysius, entertainment entrepreneur, was born in Philadelphia, Pa., Apr. 8, 1896, son of Peter Redmond and Agnes Anastasia (Bowen) Tyrrell. His father came to this country from England in 1890 and settled in Philadelphia, where he was a barber, wigmaker, and cigarmaker. Peter A. Tyrrell received his early education at St. John the Baptist High School for Boys, Manayunk, a suburb of Philadelphia, and completed a two year business course there. He began his career in 1912 as a stenographer and clerk in the employ of the Girard Trust Co. ( later Girard Bank), Philadelphia, continuing in that capacity until 1914. From 1915 to 1917 he was a clerk in Philadelphia for the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Co., and during 1917-19 he was engaged in typewriter demonstration and maintenance work for the Hooven Automatic Typewriter Co., Philadelphia. Later in 1919, having spent some months as a sportswriter with the Manayunk Review, a newspaper, published in Manayunk, he entered the field of sports promotion and publicity, establishing a 3,000-seat facility on a carnival lot in West Manayunk, across the river from Philadelphia, where he staged fifteen-round boxing matches, the limit in Philadelphia proper then being six rounds. In 1920 he went to New York City as publicist for Al Lippe, a boxing manager, and the following year he returned to Philadelphia to serve in a similar capacity for Boo Boo Hoff (Max Hoff), a boxing promoter and manager, with whom he continued his association until 1929. In that year Tyrrell became a boxing matchmaker with the Philadelphia Arena, then that city’s largest public entertainment facility. With the decline in boxing attendance during the national economic depression of the 1930s, Tyrrell subsequently became publicist for the Arena, and when it went bankrupt in 1934 he was appointed a friendly receiver in equity by George Welsh, a federal court judge. In that capacity he served as general manager of the Arena until 1958, returning its operations to profitability. In 1958 he and associates purchased the Arena and established the Philadelphia Arena Corp., with Tyrrell as president and general manager. He retained those posts until his resignation in 1965.

The Arena History

The Philadelphia Arena was built in 1920 by George F. Pawling, an engineer and athletic official, who installed $150,000 worth of icemaking equipment in an unsuccessful effort to increase the popularity of ice skating in Philadelphia. In 1925 the building was acquired by Jules Mastbaum, owner of a chain of motion picture theaters, who renamed it the Arena and operated it primarily to stage boxing matches. Two years later the Arena was sold to Rudy Fried and Maurice Fishman, boxing promoters, who operated the facility until it was placed in receivership in 1934. In 1947 the Arena was purchased by Triangle Publications, Inc., Philadelphia , later becoming part of the Annenberg Foundation, which sold it to Tyrrell and associates in 1958. Upon Tyrrell’s resignation as president and general manager in 1965, the Arena was sold at auction to James Toppi Enterprises, a sports promotion concern.

His contributions to the major Ice Shows

During his years with the Arena, Tyrrell significantly enriched the variety of public entertainment in Philadelphia and elsewhere. In 1936 he became one of the first to book the Shipstad and Johnson ice-skating show, and its success in Philadelphia led to the establishment of the Ice Follies, which in turn became one of the most successful shows in the entertainment field. In 1940 he formed an association with ten eastern sports Arenas which financed the Ice Capades, another ice-skating show, separate from Ice Follies. Tyrrell was named business manager and organized and signed the talent for the first production. He served as first company manager and president in 1940. After rehearsing the show in the Philadelphia Arena, Tyrrell took it on its first road trip to New Orleans, La. Subsequently, the show was taken to Atlantic City, N.J., and rehearsed during the summers under Tyrrell’s direction before setting out on road tours throughout the country during the winters. He was a director of the Ice Capades from 1940 until 1963, when the company was sold to Metromedia, Inc., for $5 million. He convinced Sonja Henie, a figure skater, to turn professional, and she made her professional debut at the Arena and subsequently became the star of her own show, Hollywood Ice Revue.

His contributions to major indoor Rodeos

Tyrrell also brought to Philadelphia its first major rodeo, starring Gene Autry. When Autry left the show, Tyrrell hired Roy Rogers, who was playing in cowboy and western movies at the same studio as Autry. Playing his first arena rodeo, Rodgers was well received and Tyrrell arranged his appearances at other arenas.

Other Arena Events and Television Firsts

During the 1940s Tyrrell arranged at the Arena what were considered the worlds first televised ice show, basketball and hockey games, and boxing match. In 1949 he arranged in five weeks the welterweight boxing championship match between Sugar Ray Robinson and Kid Gavilan, selling $90,000 worth of tickets at the gate. The match was held at Municipal Stadium (later John F. Kennedy Stadium) in Philadelphia, and drew a total of $178,000 and attracted an audience of 27,805, the second largest for a boxing match in Philadelphia history. Tyrrell was known for his varied programming. The events held at the Arena during his tenure including the Johnny Weismuller and Buster Crabbe swimming shows, roller derbies, billiards contests, six-day bicycle races, dance marathons, rocking chair derbies, furniture sales, automobile shows, an endurance race between men and horses, and performances by the Spanish Riding School, the Lippizaner Stallions of Vienna, the Moscow Circus, the Scotch Guard, Gracie Fields, Bob Hope, Nat King Cole, Victor Borge, Elvis Presley, and Marion Anderson. Among the more unique events was the wedding of a couple participating in a dance marathon in Camden, N.J. Brought to the Arena in an open truck with orchestra, the couple danced in to, and during the ceremony and back to Camden in the truck. Red Skelton served as master of ceremonies for the marathon and the wedding. On another occasion the funeral of a cowgirl who died while performing with the Roy Rogers rodeo was held at the Arena, with Rogers and the Sons of the Pioneers singing “Round-up in the Sky,” after which the entire rodeo troupe rode with the casket to the cemetery. Upon retiring from the Arena in 1965, Tyrrell established Pete Tyrrell & Associates, Philadelphia, to engage in the promotion of individual attractions at the Arena and other stadiums in the Philadelphia area. Tyrrell served as president of this firm from its inception until the close of his life. In addition to his main activities, he was a founder Basketball Association of America (BAA), forerunner of the National Basketball Association (NBA), and for a time he managed the Philadelphia Warriors professional basketball team, which won the 1946-1947 BBA championship. He also brought the Ramblers team of the American Hockey League to Philadelphia as a farm club of the New York Rangers.

His Civic Affairs

Interested in civic affairs, Tyrrell and Oscar Johnson, owner of Ice Follies, staged a benefit in 1954 for the orphans of ten fireman killed in an explosion during a fire at a chemical plant in Philadelphia that year. This benefit became a forerunner of the annual Hero Scholarship Fund and Thrill Show which was organized in that year with Tyrrell serving as a director until the close of his life. At other times he staged benefits for prison welfare and for various church-operated welfare homes and hospitals. He brought about the repeal of the section of the Pennsylvania Blue Laws prohibiting entertainment events on Sundays by staging a benefit show for St. Joseph’s Home, a church-operated institution, on a Sunday. The benefit became an annual event. Tyrrell was the recipient of a large number of awards from local groups for his charitable and fund-raising activities. From 1963 to 1965 he was vice-president of the National Arena Managers Association.

Personal

His religious affiliation was with the Roman Catholic Church. In politics he was an independent. For recreation he played golf, winning numerous trophies, and he was a member of the Bala Golf Club of Philadelphia. He was considered an exceptional pocket billiard player and played exhibition matches with many world champions. He was married in Philadelphia, Jan. 24, 1927, to Elsie Amelia , daughter of Julius Fred and Amelia Elsie (Dreger) Day of that city, and had three children: Peter Aloysius, who married Mary Patricia Kelly; Elsie Amelia, who married John Edward Rann; and Eleanor Agnes. Peter A. Tyrrell died in Philadelphia, Pa., May 8, 1973.

Below is the second Specific Referance.

The following is p12 of the book Ice Capades "years of Entertainment" by F.F.Hamiltin Jr. Penchant Publishing Co, Ltd. Washington D.C. c1973

The Beginning Years

(1940-1945)

A group of arena owners gathered in Hershey, Pa. on Valentine's Day, 1940 to discuss forming' an ice show to play their buildings during the I940-4I season. This group, the Arena Managers Association, consisted of Walter A. Brown (Boston Garden), Louis A.R. Pieri (Rhode Island Auditorium), Louis Jacobs (Buffalo Audi¬torium), John B. Sollenberger (Hershey Sports Arena), Al Sutphin (Cleveland Arena), Edward W. Shore (Springfield Coliseum), Peter A. Tyrrell (Philadelphia Arena), Nathan Podoloff (New Haven Arena) and John H. Harris (Pittsburgh Gardens). They elected John Harris, president, Walter Brown, vice-president and treasurer, Louis Pieri, secretary, and the other members present as directors. The subject of what to call the new ice spectacular arose. Walter Brown from the Boston Garden was checking words asso¬ciated with ice and entertainment when "escapades" appeared in the list. "Ice" and "capades' seemed a logical combination. A new name in entertainment was born. Designated as business manager, Pete Tyrrell from the Philadelphia Arena, or¬ganized and signed the talent for the first production which started.rehearsals at the Arena in May. Charlie Uksila was choreo¬grapher and Jerry Mayhall musical director with costumes from H. Mahieu, Inc., New York. Bob Mack, as master of ceremonies, introduced the stars and the production numbers. There were five production num- bers in the 1940 edition: I. The Silver Ballet, 2. Ballroom Dancing, 3. Alice Blue Gown, 4. The Riding Ballet, and 5. Finale (no name but with the entire cast). Listed in the cast were: skating stars, Robin Lee, Vera Hruba, Lois Dworshak, Dench & Stewart, McGowan and Mack, Cliff and Rona Thaell, Pierre and Denise Benoit, and Joanne McGowan; comedians, Jackson & Lynam, the Four Bruises; special¬ty acts, Serge Flash, Fritz Dieti. In addition, there was a small skating ballet of 16 girls. Other credits included lighting effects by Earl Crumb, ice painting by Homer Smith and publicity, Ben Oliver. New Orleans Municipal Auditorium was the scene for the world premiere on June loth. Performances were nightly at 8:30 and there were no matinees (and no custo¬mers). After closing there June 29th, Ice Capades journeyed to Atlantic City to prepare a re¬vised edition. The I940 show billed as "The Toast of the Coast" opened July 19th in Convention Hall, and played nightly through September 2nd. During the day the cast rehearsed Ice Capades of 1941. Russell Markerr from Radio City, New York, staged and directed the new production with music and lyrics by Peter de Rose and John Latouche. Musical arrangements were by Earl Moss and Jerry Mayhalt, the show's musical director. H. Mahieu executed the costumes with scenery and props by Stage-crafters Studio. In addition to the cast of the New Orleans show, ne.w stars were: Belita, the great English skater, Red McCarthy, daring speed skater, comedians, Eric Waite, Freddie Trenkler and Joe Jackson, Jr. and George Byron as M.C. who made the intro¬ductions and sang the hit tunes written for the show. The ballet increased in size to 24 girls and 12 boys. The show now was ready to embark upon its first tour season; however, a return engagement to New Orleans as the first stop proved to be a financial stumbling block. Consequently, the '4I edition went to Pittsburgh for more rehearsals at the Gardens where the show opened November 5th to excellent notices and business.

12

Please note that there is an error in the above, which states that Harris was elected President, as he was not elected President till February 1941. The author F.F.Hamilton Jr. was an employee of Harris at the time of the writing.

You will also note that the above story gives my father credit for forming or starting the first show.

Signed Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk • contribs) 4:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

• OK, thank you. I'd like to direct your attention to Wikipedia:autobiography, which indicates you should let others write articles about your relatives. In particular, your claim that the Hamilton book is incorrect seems to be based on original research rather than verifiable sources. The National Cyclopedia quote seems a little confused; it says Tyrrell was named business manager but served as president. I'm curious to see what this source says about Harris's role. When I have a chance, I will visit my local research library and see what additional sources I can turn up. For now, about all I can conclude is that Tyrrell was involved, somehow, in the company's founding, but the majority of sources still seem to indicate that Harris was the first president. Dr.frog 22:07, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Second post by User:Peter A. Tyrrell Jr.

Note to Dr. Frogg, As a contributor to a published History Book and custodian of my father’s papers, I feel that I am swell qualified to contribute to a fake history, involving my father, which is a fairy tale in many respects. My father Peter a. Tyrrell For some reason preferred to call himself Manager, or Business Manager, rather than President of Ice Capades. The Biography by the National Cyclopedia of American Biography seems to well researched and I have never found a conflict in their work. On the other hand the work done by F.F. Hamilton is full of errors or he had an agenda. You people ask that facts be specific, yet when facts are presented from a respected reference source, you indicate that the source was confused, and except the poorly researched author.

On page 12 of Ice Capades “years of entertainment” F. F. Hamilton states the following New Orleans Municipal Auditorium was the scene for the world premiere on June 16th . Performances were nightly at 8:30 and there were no matinees (and no customers).

In Regards to no customers: Either Mr. Hamilton had an agenda, to down play the World Premier running of the show, or did very poor research. The New Orleans Time Picayune on page 18 of their June 17th edition, said “THRONG ENJOYS WORLD PREMIER” Billboard Magazine Aug. 10th 1040, which gave the financial results of the First two weeks and reported that the show was being held over for a third week. Also see advertisement “Held Over thru Wednesday” for July 3rd in the New Orleans States

In regards to No Matinees: As a matter of fact, Ice Capades played two Saturday matinees while in New Orleans, one on June 23 and one on June 30th. Here again Mr. Hamilton was in error See AD in Times Picayune June 22, 1940 and Story in New Orleans States June 30th 1940

Note: Mr. Hamilton was an employee of Ice Capades and his boss John Harris, had nothing to do with the first production.

Again on page 12 Mr. Hamilton states that the “a return engagement to New Orleans As the first stop proved to be a financial stumbling block.”

Here again either he was exhibiting his agenda, possibly for his boss Harris, or is guilty a third time for lack of research.

See New Orleans Tribune September 12, 1940 “Ice Capades Held Over for week”

Note: Shows which are having financial trouble CLOSE, and never EXTEND a loosing run.

You dispute the fact that Pete Tyrrell was the first President, even though it is so recorded in a real encyclopedia. Why then did Metromedia present Pete, with a 14 inch 7 inch high silver cup engraved as follows:

Pete Tyrrell

1st Company President 1940
With Great Respect and Affection
ICE CAPADES, INC.

25th Anniversary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TyrrellCup.jpg

Since the 25th Anniversary fell in 1965, the cup was presented two years Pete negotiated the sale to Metromedia and was no longer a Director of the Company.

There s a picture I have in my possession taken at the grand opening in New Orleans on June 16, 1940, Of the cast and dignatories. Pete Tyrrell is receiving the flowers from Little Joann McGowan, child skater in the show, and John Harris cannot be found in the picture. If he had been Co. President, he would have been there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tyrrell1940.jpg

Why do you people call yourselves an encyclopedia, when you print non truths and shun the true facts.

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.251.176 (talk • contribs) 2:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

• I don't call myself anything other than dr.frog!  :-) Look, I'm sorry I haven't had time to go to the library yet to verify your sources, but writing Wikipedia articles is a part-time activity for me. When I get a break in my work schedule, I will go read whatever published sources I can find there (I checked their online catalog and they do have a copy of both the National Cyclopedia and the Hamilton book as well as their periodical collection for checking contemporary news reports). Once again, unpublished papers and photos you have in your possession are not considered verifiable sources. For what it's worth, you seem to have a real "agenda" here, too -- which is one of the reasons why Wikipedia frowns upon original research. Dr.frog 03:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes I do have an agenda, it is to stop false history from being advanced. In 1958, I was assigned to Walter Reed Hospital, by my employer RCA. I was supervising a color TV system for medical purposes. I remember on June 29th of that year President Eisenhower Was admitted for pains in his stomach and his ileum was removed. Several weeks later we had a maintenace night in the main operating room. When I entered the room a GI with an electric drill was drilling two small holes in the operating table. A 2nd Lt. entered the room and asked the GI what are you doing. He replied placing the silver engraved tag on the table, Sir. Don’t put it on that table, put in on the new table in the other operating room. The GI replied but Sir this is the table the president was operated on. The Lt. replied I don’t care look the leather on this table is cracked. That’s false history for you,the real table probably went to the trash heap and the wrong table is probably in a museum someplace. It seems that some people would rather try to read the pictures on a cave wall rater than believe a real cave man who is here telling you exactly what he lived.

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk • contribs) 6:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

And that has what to do with the Ice Capades? Awartha 06:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply to AWARTHA. What does my response to Dr. Frog, have to do with Ice Capades. When I told Dr. Frog that a source that he quoted, regarding the early years of Ice Capades, had “an agenda”, he accused me of having an agenda also. I was explaining that I do have an agenda, which is truth in reporting History. It seems he likes the Myth or Fairy Tale that Wikipedia is presently putting out as fact regarding the founding of Ice Capades.

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk • contribs) 23:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I have read with much interest the discussion of the origins of Ice Capades. Much of what I've read is pure hogwash. John H.Harris of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania was the founder of Ice Capades. The Arena Managers Association of which Mr. Tyrrell was a part were investors and nothing more. John Harris was the creative mind behind the show. He ran the show, hired and fired and without him, there would have been no Ice Capades.

I know whereof I speak, John Harris was my uncle.

If challenged on anything I've posted, I will be happy to submit documentation. 207.69.139.150 04:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC) Thomas J. Sheridan

I CAN NOT BELIEVE PETE TYRELL'S ABSURD ACCUSATIONS, RELATIVE TO HIS FATHER EVER BEING PRESIDENT OF ICE CAPADES. ICE CAPADES WAS THE CREATION OF JOHN H.HARRIS AND ONLY JOHN H.HARRIS. HE WENT TO THE ARENA MANAGERS ASSOCIATION FOR FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE,THEY AGREED AND THAT WAS THEIR INVOLVEMENT. THE ARENA MANAGERS MAINTAINED A POSITION AS STOCK HOLDERS OF THE SHOW. HARRIS WAS THE PRESIDENT AND ONLY PRESIDENT, UNTIL HE RETIRED IN 1963. HARRIS PRODUCED AND DIRECTED EVERY SHOW UNTLL HE RETIRED AND EVERY ICE SKATER IN CAPADES, FOLLIES AND HOLIDAY KNOWS IT...... HE WAS INVOLVED IN EVERY DETAIL OF THE SHOWS PRODUCTION, FROM THE MUSIC, WITH CONDUCTOR JERRY MAYHALL TO THE LIGHTING WITH PETE DANTE, THE COSTUMES , THE PROPS, TO THE GRAPHICS ON THE PROGRAM, TO THE ART WORK BY THE GREAT ILLUSTRATOR/ARTIST GEORGE PETTY......PETER TYRELL SR. HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE ARENA, IN PHILIDELPHIA AND WAS A MEMBER OF THE ARENA MANAGERS ASSOCIATION; BUT, NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE OPERATION OF THE SHOW ITSELF. JOHN H.HARRIS LOVED ICE CAPADES AND AFTER HE LEFT ITS HELM ICE CAPADES WAS NEVER THE SAME. JOHN H. HARRIS DIED IN 1969 AND AFTER 4 OR 5 NEW OWNERS, CONCERNED WITH PROFIT ONLY, HIS BELOVED ICE CAPADES DIED TOO. AS MY BROTHER THOMAS J. SHERIDAN SAID, "I KNOW WHERE OF I SPEAK" I SKATED IN INC CAPADES AND JOHN H. HARRIS WAS MY UNCLE AS WELL. 209.213.6.241 12:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC) JOHN HARRIS SHERIDAN

Third post by User:Peter A. Tyrrell Jr.

Below is a historic picture taken on June 16, 1940 at the World Premiere performance of Ice Capades. (the very first performance ever of Ice Capades) in New Orleans LA. My father Peter A. Tyrrell, Company President is accepting the traditional flowers from Jo Ann McGowan. Jo Ann, a child professional skater, is the daughter of McGowan and Mack show principals. (Pete Tyrrell is standing on Jo Ann's Left)

Where is John Harris? His nephew should be able to spot him if he were there. If he had been President as some claim, he sure would have been at the World Premiere opening of the show. Getting Ice Capades started was no duck shoot in a bath tub, as Ice Vanities had just folded and Dad even hired skaters from the defunct show.

Standing to Pete's left and in second row wearing white hat, is Vera Hruba, (later Vera Hruba Ralston) who stared in the Ice Vanities.

Note: If you look closely in the fore front of the Photo you will see that the picture is autographed by the shows New Orleans promoter Prieur Leary. Copy reads: Sincerely, Prieur Leary New Orleans 1940.

Leary is second on the left of Tyrrell, holding straw hat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tyrrell1940.jpg

Below is a photo of the Silver Cup, which Ice Capades presented to my Father as The shows First President on the shows 25th anniversary. At the time of the 25th anniversary 1965, Ice Capades was owned by Metromeda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TyrrellCup.jpg

[[1]]

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. 01:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Fourth post by User:Peter A. Tyrrell Jr.

Answer to JOHN HARRIS SHERIDAN, who says he knows it all.

If my father was only an investor, why was he listed as the shows manager in several programs in the early years. If your Uncle produced every show, why did Billboard Magazine say the Uksilas, Charles anf Vida staged and directed the show. The same story on August 3, 1940 indicates the show was started in Philadelphia, where my father’s Arena was located. Why was my father receiving the traditional flowers in New Orleans at the shows World Premier. Why isn’t you uncle in the historic picture posted in this “Talk section”. If Pete Tyrrell wasn’t the first President, why did Metromedia present him with a silver bowl for being the first President on the shows twenty-fifth anniversary? (see picture posted above)

Peter Tyrrell Jr.

"lce-Capades" Has Big Philly Start

ATLANTIC CITY, July 2?,--Ice Capades of 1940, staged and directed by Charles and Vida Uksila for the Arena Managers' Association, got off to a smash start last Friday (19) for its 66 day enjoyment at the Convention Hall Auditorium here. Opening weekend brought out 10,000, the 7,400 patrons on Friday bettering by 1,500 the opening of Ice Follies here in 1937. Auditorium ]ms 9,500 seats, selling at 55 cents, $1.10 and $1.65 and the show runs nightly, including Sundays. In addition to the turn-out of all the celebs in town to give the opening a Hollywood aura. WBAB and WFPG broadcast show's de- ¬scriptions. Production is practically the same as that which ran for three weeks, starting June 16, in New Orleans, reviewed in June 6 issue of The Billboard. Only modification since New Orleans opening night include Red McCarthy, 'The Silver Phantom” Edwina Blades, of the original cast, rejoins the show August 1 on Com- ¬pleting an engagement at Hotel New Yorker, New YorL Taking her place, meanwhile, is Belita, who starred in pre- miere of New Yorker show. Line of 16 men will be worked into the show within next few days to supplement line of 24 girls.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk • contribs) 4:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Further discussion

Mr. Peter A. Tyrrell Jr.,

You must be in some serious denial or possibly smoking crack because both my grandfather and father worked for John Harris in Pittsburgh, PA and were both there when Ice Capades was founded. I happen to have in my possesion the original documents that verify that John Harris founded, started and was the sole owner and president of the Ice Capades up until it's sale to John Kluge and Metromedia and I am one of the largest holders of Ice Capades documents in relation to its business dealings from 1940-1986. You need to get your facts straight and accept your pathetic life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bicklecity (talk • contribs) 21:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Why does Wikipedia allow such personally insulting non truthful junk information to be posted (See above), with no name identification. The author is totally wrong with his posted material even with my honorific, it is not Mr., it is the Honorable Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. If he is so intelligent, why doesn't he point out in the following Picture, taken at the very first performance of ICE Capades in New Orleans LA June 16, 1940, just where John Harris was standing, in relation to my father, who is receiving the traditional flowers.

Click on Hyperlink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tyrrell1940.jpg

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.230.251.176 (talk • contribs) 4:56, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

After several weeks, the unnamed writer, whom I shall call the Phantom of the Ice Opera, has failed to answer my challenge. Like I figured his Father and Grandfather, probably were Ushers in the Garden or even The Harris Threaters and his documents are all in roll form.

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk • contribs) 20:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Tyrrell Jr., You are a silly man! Yes it is me the so called Phantom of the Ice Opera....the reason that I haven't responded to your pathetic quest for your father's exoneration regarding the Ice Capades is because I don't spend my life trying to find a quest for something that is obviously not the truth. In your so called photo...I see a little girl holding flowers and not giving them to anyone. Anyone with a mouse brain can plainly see that the girl is not giving the flowers to anyone..just merely standing in front of your father. I also think that you should provide actual documenation other than an old tarnished silver cup. My father and grandfather were not ushers in the Garden or the Harris Theaters. I'm really tired of your nonsense...your father was merely an investor and on the board of investors that helped seed fund Harris and the show.

I will tell you that there is a woman in the photo who I know personally. I am contacting her and will be gathering the facts of the case and will present my findings to this forum in the near future! In the meantime, if I don't post a response right away...you should just hold your tongue...you are bordering on lunacy and it's scaring a lot of us.

P.S. What makes you so honorable? If you were really a judge you would have originally identified yourself as one in your previous posts. You're MR. JOKE to me.

Travis Bickle _ See I Identified myself —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bicklecity (talk • contribs) 8:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Fifth post by User:Peter A. Tyrrell Jr.

The dispute regarding the history of The Ice Capades and it’s founding fathers, has been going on for an excess length of time. Your version, of the shows founding, paints John Harris as somewhat of a Man that doesn’t know what was going on in the industry. Your version states the following: “Ice Capades was founded in 1940 in Hershey, Pennsylvania by John H. Harris, who noted the popularity of ice skating displays during the intermissions between periods of hockey games. In the early days, Ice Capades shows were highly theatrical, with vaudeville elements, including scantily-clad showgirls.” If John Harris was only noting the popularity of Ice Skating displays between Ice Hockey periods in 1940, why wasn’t he aware of the success of the large Ice Shows already touring North America. Ice Follies had started in November 1936 1 and Sonja Henie’s Hollywood Ice Revue in 1938 (Click here: Sonja Henie - Hollywood Ice Revue), and Ice Vanities 1939. See web site-Ice Time Dec 18, 1939 Click here: On Ice - TIME .

If your story is correct, you are saying that Harris got the idea for a traveling Ice Show, after there were three other Traveling Ice Shows were already playing the Arenas in North America.

On the other hand Peter A. Tyrrell, the other contender (in your dispute) for Ice Capades founding father, has a well documented knowledge of the Ice Show industry, having played a major part in figure skating prior to the inception of Ice Capades It was Tyrrell who paid Sonja Heine her first money as a professional figure skater in 1936. Sonja turned Professional in the Philadelphia Arena, of which Tyrrell was General Manager.2 Pete paid Sonja Heine, star to be of the Movies and Hollywood Ice Revue, her first money as a professional Figure Skater. In the Spring of 1937 Tyrrell played Ice Follies in his Philadelphia Arena. The two day stand was the first successful run for the new show, which had just been given it’s start, on November 3, 1936. Tyrrell has been credited for the show getting off of the ground. In a book on Eddie Shipstad, a partner in Shipsteads & Johnson Ice Follies, Tyrrell’s contributions to the success of Ice Follies are covered in detail.3 Ice Vanities, a Canadian Financed show, failed while in Philadelphia and Pete Tyrrell helped many of the skaters who were stranded. Since Tyrrell was already involved in the start up of Ice Capades he signed some of the Vanities skaters to contracts with Ice Capades. Among these was Vera Hruba, who later became Vera Ralston the movie actress. Tyrrell also ran a company named “Ice Artists Booking Agency” in the late 1930’s and early 1940’s. If Harris did put on skating acts between Hockey periods, he no doubt would have had to book his talent through Tyrrell’s agency.

Why would the Ten Arena Managers, who started Ice Capades pick a President to start the new venture, who was still in the dark ages of putting on Ice Skating acts between the periods of a Hockey game, When they had the man who had been active in every Ice Show activity to date. The man who was in reality “Mr. Ice Show”, Peter A. Tyrrell. Starting on February 14, 1940, when The Arena Managers Association decided to form a new show, Ice Capades, Tyrrell signed the talent, rehearsed and produced the show and opened the New Show on June 16, 1940, in New Orleans LA, all in four months and two days.

Click on Hyperlink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tyrrell1940.jpg

1. p11 Eddie Shipstead Ice Follies Star L.E.. Leipold. Phd. 2. NATIONAL CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY vol 57 pp 297-298 [with paragraph notes in brackets added] (The text of this Biography is included in Ice Capades Talk above), Also see Wikipedia entry for Philadelphia Arena. Click here: Philadelphia Arena - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 3. Below is a copy of pp 98-101 of Eddie Shipstead Ice Follies Star L.E.. by Leipold. Phd. T.S.Dennison & Co. Minneapolis, Minn.

98 EDDIE SHIPSTAD, ICE FOLLIES STAR

their show as a good one, but no matter how good it was, if they could not get people to come to see it, they would very soon be in serious trouble. From Kansas City they went to St. Louis where they fared little better in attracting patrons to their show. Now there began to be talk about throwing in the sponge, but the three partners had too much invested in the enterprise to give up so soon. The other members of the cast agreed, but reluctantly. But it took more than this to discourage Eddie, Oscar and Roy. By the time the show reached Philadelphia, the faith and determination of the three young men began to show results. To their joy and relief, the ill-fortune which had dogged their efforts disappeared in Philadelphia. Their itinerary included a two-night stay in the City of Brotherly Love, and true to its name, it welcomed the discouraged little group. It was there that their fortunes took a turn for the better; Lady Luck and good Dame Fortune were both awaiting them there. They had been tested and found worthy of their blessings. Then, learning that their Nordic stock was truly the intrepid kind that had made their ancestors known throughout the civilized world for bravery and valor, it had given the group its bless- ing, in effect saying, "You have proved yourselves worthy. The entertainment world is now yours; go as far as your talents and courage will take you. There are no limits other than your own." The manager of the Philadelphia Arena was a man named Pete Tyrrell, a quiet person who pos- sessed a dynamo of energy and an indomitable will.

99 EDDIE SHIPSTAD, ICE FOLLIES STAR

He had heard of the discouragements that had be- fallen the Ice Follies cast and he was determined to do something about it. The show was too good and the idea behind it too novel to have them fall by the wayside. The Philadelphia stay could well be the deciding point in the ice show's career. If this city's support proved to be not greater than that which had been given them in the four previously visited cities, it could well be that the show would "fold" and the members of the cast return home in defeat. On the other hand, if good fortune blessed their Philadelphia stay, it could well prove to be the im- petus needed to keep them intact and on the road. Pete decided to do something about it. All that was needed were customers, he decided, and they could be lured into the Arena only by let- ting them know just what kind of show had been booked for their entertainment. This in turn could be done only through proper advertising. Pete pro- ceeded to exert his best efforts. He let the Phila- delphians know the treat that was in store for them if they came to the Arena to see the Ice Follies, and the people, believing, came. Instead of playing to empty seats as they had been doing, they performed before a large and appreciative audience who liked what they saw and told others about it. The result was that the second night's crowd was even larger than that of the first performance. It was clearly shown that people could be induced to attend the unique show and when they did, they would be pleased. That in substance was the lesson that had been taught in Philadelphia. With confidence re-

EDDIE SHIPSTAD, ICE FOLLIES STAR 100

stored and spirits renewed, the little group gave up all thoughts of quitting and devoted their efforts in producing an even better show. The audience responding in kind, showed their appreciation by applauding, whistling, and stomping their feet. "It was a brand of entertainment that had never before been seen in the home city of the Liberty Bell," was Eddie's comment. "They loved it and they asked for more. The members of the cast were fired to a new pitch of enthusiasm and they gave the audience what is was clamoring for. It was a highly advantageous type of thing for both of us."

Unknown to Eddie, Roy, or Oscar, there were scouts in the audience that evening in Philadelphia who were to play an important part in the success of the new entertainment company. Some time pre- vious to their Philadelphia appearance, Roy had re- ceived a request from Madison Square Garden ask- ing him if he were interested in taking part in a special show that was to be held in Madison Square Garden in which he would do a solo act. While he was very much interested, he was forced to wire back that he would not be able to consider their offer as he was on the road with his own show. He informed the Garden agent that he would be in nearby Philadelphia on a certain day in the near future, performing there.

The Madison Square Garden representative, Major Harold Dibblee, contacted Walter Brown, of the Boston Gardens, and the two men decided to see this new Ice Follies road show for themselves. They were both desperate for new talent at their arenas

101 EDDIE SHIPSTAD, ICE FOLLIES STAR

and were interested in the reaction that Philadel- phia audiences might have to the show. With Pete Tyrrell, Harold Dibblee and Walter Brown were watching the rejuvenated and inspired skating group stage their performance. They were astounded by the enthusiastic endorsement that the audience gave to each number as it was presented and they lost no time in hurrying to the dressing rooms after the show to talk to the three men. It appeared that not only did the enthusiastic audience provide an an- swer to the worried Ships tads and Johnson troupe, but it also gave Mr. Dibblee and Mr. Brown a solu- tion to their problem. Both men were responsible for huge arenas and they were desperate for some- thing new and appealing to present to their patrons. The Ice Follies was the answer, in the opinion of both men. Not only would the show be a real attrac- tion in the near future but it would provide an en- tertainment that could be returned year after year.

Before Mr. Dibblee and Mr. Brown left the Fol- lies dressing room that evening, the show had been booked to appear at both the Madison Square Gar- den and the Boston Gardens. The Philadelphia newspapers carried the story in full, extolling the ice show and telling of its coming appearances in New York and Boston. In this way the word got around and soon offers were coming in from other arenas as well. It seemed that everyone was inter- ested in not only a current appearance but also re- turn engagements in future years. Within a few days the Ice Follies of 1936 was booked solidly for the remainder of the season and well into the next year

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. 18:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)Peter A. Tyrrell Jr.

• • • • Tyrell, god you are a joke. Your father didn't found the Ice Capades, he merely was the head of a group of investors. Anybody who knows anything know's that. Let's not dispute the fact that John Harris, thought of, gathered the group of investors and promoted the Ice Capades to World Wide Acclaim. It is your selfish and unruly jealousy and lack of success that has lead you to try and I say try to change history. The facts remain the same my Mr. Honorable Tyrrell Jr., you can't change history, it's the truth that comes out and you will always be regarded as a jealous man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.209.52 (talk • contribs) 6:00, 30 September 2007 (UTC). It was removed by 71.230.251.176 14:17, 3 October 2007 (UTC), and replaced for archival reasons by BlueMoonlet (t/c) 19:01, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Sixth post by User:Peter A. Tyrrell Jr.

An Open reply to Travis Bickle – Kolindigo and Dr. frog please take note.

Dear Travis,

I am not a “Silly man”, but rather a man who is interested in History, who is against people like yourself, who wish to re-write history. People who wish to steal the achievements of others, for themselves, there relatives or former employers. I do not deny that John Harris was elected President of Capades in February of 1941. Why do you “history re-writers” want to ignore the facts and not recognize the truth, regarding the historic, documented facts associated with the founding and start up of Ice Capades.

Why do you personally delight in insulting people, rather than presenting true facts? In your insulting reply you paid no attention to the fact that the National Cyclopedia of American Biography, a virtually unparalleled resource of American history studies, has published the following. Which can be seen in every large library in the United States.

“In 1940 he formed an association with ten eastern sports Arenas which financed the Ice Capades, another ice-skating show, separate from Ice Follies. Tyrrell was named business manager and organized and signed the talent for the first production. He served as first company manager and president in 1940. After rehearsing the show in the Philadelphia Arena, Tyrrell took it on its first road trip to New Orleans, La. Subsequently, the show was taken to Atlantic City, N.J., and rehearsed during the summers under Tyrrell’s direction before setting out on road tours throughout the country during the winters. He was a director of the Ice Capades from 1940 until 1963, when the company was sold to Metromedia, Inc., for $5 million”.

Since you deny every thing that does not agree with your history re-write, below is the Preface from Vol. 57 of the National Cyclopedia.

PREFACE

The present volume is the fifty-seventh in the Permanent Series of THE NATIONAL CYCLOPEDIA OF AMERICAN BIOGRAPHY, and as such it represents another vital segment of an ever-growing reference tool that is indispensable for research in the fields of American history and biography.

As in the preceding volumes, the biographies are set forth in the following manner:

At the outset each article provides a birth record, parentage, and paternal American ancestry when available, and continues with a statement of education and a brief chronological career résumé.

Significant aspects and specific accomplishments of the subject's career are then given detailed treatment. Civic and philanthropic activities; professional, social, political, and religious affiliations; a marriage record; and a statement of the place and date of the subject's death conclude the biography.

This consistency in presentation of each subject's life story enormously simplifies the researcher's task.

The Permanent Series of the CYCLOPEDIA contains the biographies of deceased subjects. Together with its counterpart, the Current Series, which is made up of biog- ¬raphies of living subjects, it comprises the largest biographical collection available on Americans as well as a many-faceted history of the United States. In its two series the CYCLOPEDIA contains over 58,000 biographies in 69 volumes.

As adjuncts to the basic biographical volumes, each of which has its own name index,the publisher also offers the Index Volume and a separate but compatible volume entitled NOTABLE NAMES IN AMERICAN HISTORY. The former brings together name references to all volumes in both series and many thousands of detailed and cross-indexed topical entries for the entire set. NOTABLE NAMES is a tabulated record of American history and an all-embracing compendium of data about this nation's individuals and institutions.

The two series of biographies; the individual name indexes and the cumulative name and topical Index Volume; and NOTABLE NAMES constitute a virtually unparalleled resource for American history studies.

To double check their history regarding Ice Capades, I looked up what they had to say regarding, John Harris, however his name is not listed in NOTABLE NAMES IN AMERICAN HISTORY. This publication, I am told lists the two most prominent citizens from each state, all Senators, Representatives, Presidents Generals and Admirals, upon their death. Evidently John Harris didn’t make the cut.

You indicated that you had a great collection of early Ice Capades papers, yet you referred to Joann McGowan as the “little girl”, when in fact she was the youngest professional ice skater and a member of the cast. You can’t even tell that she is presenting the flowers to Peter Tyrrell. I can assure that she wasn’t presenting them to John Harris. For your education re-Ice Capades here is the picture with name callouts.

• 

Opening Night Very First Performance of Ice Capades June 16, 1940 New Orleans LA

Foreground: Jo Ann McGowan, Presenting Flowers First Row L to R: Unidentified, J. George Lipsius—Dir. Phila. Arena, Jerry Mayhall—Music Director, Martha Dietl—Line Skater, George Bryan—Vocalist, Gerry Tracy—Line Skater, Unidentified, Peter Tyrrell—Ice Capades President, Bertram Wolf—Dir. Phila. Arena, Unidentified Local Dignitary, Prieur Leary—Local Promoter, Larry Jackson—Jackson & Lynam, Pierre Beniot—Pierre & Denise, Bernie Lynam—Jackson & Lynam, Bob Dench—Dench & Stewart, Buster Grace—Four Bruises, Vida Uksila—Wardrobe Mistress, Charles Uksila—Skating Director, Geoffre Stevens--Four Bruises. Upper Row L to R: Unidentified, Robin Lee—Male Principle, Unidentified, Unidentified, Jo Ann Bartholdi—Line Skater, Carol Brown-- Line Skater, Sid Spalding—Four Bruises, Unidentified, Vera Hurba—Female Principle (Vera Ralston), Cliff Thaell—Cliff & Rona, Rona Thaell—Cliff & Rona, Bernice Loughborough--Line Skater, Rosemarie Stewart—Dench & Stewart, Arline Smith-- Line Skater , Edna Benjamine--Line Skater, Denise Beniot—Pierre & Denise, Patsy Vorhis-- Line Skater, Peggy Smith-- Line Skater, Morice Sherwood-- Line Skater, Margaret Barry-- Line Skater, Ragna Ray-- Line Skater, Mickie Wendell-- Line Skater, Mary Viterille, Unidentified.

Note: This picture is autographed by the New Orleans Promoter, Prieur Leary. Autograph is on floor in front and reads, “Sincerely Prieur Leary New Orleans 1940”

Since you act as if you are from Missouri, here is a clipping from the Now Orleans Item. Dated June 17th 1940. The author was Fred Digby, who was the founder of the Sugar Bowl Game. The idea of a New Year's Day football classic in New Orleans was first presented in 1927 by Colonel James M. Thomson, publisher of the New Orleans Item, and Sports Editor Fred Digby. (A scan of this column is on Web page showing Program Books http://icecapades.home.comcast.net)

A True Copy of Column in the New Orleans Item Published on June 17th 1940. Page 18

Looking ‘EM Over With Fred Digby

Fight Promoter Turns From Ring to Rink; Brings First Ice Carnival To New Orleans From the ring to the rink is a step few fellows take, but Pete Tyrrell has made it and he has no regrets. Indeed he is Happy about the whole thing. Years ago Tyrrell was one of The best known handlers of boxers and through his connec- tion with Al Lippe, who had a great stable of scrappers in- cluding Jeff Smith, claimant of the middleweight champion- ship, got around and about the country.

Today Tyrrell is one of the more successful of the ice skating promoters. He is business manager of the “Ice Capades of 1940.” Witch had it’s premier at the Municipal Auditorium last night and will play repeat performances for The next two weeks. And a third week, if the customers like the show, which, I think they will. For Pete has put together one of the finest ice skating attractions it has been my pleasureto witness. And I have seen Sonja Heine’s troupe, too.

It is the show Tyrrell will take to Atlantic City for a six Weeks stay following the engagement here, and then on tour of the East and Middle West throughout the winter months. It includes many “name” performers gathered from all sections of the nation, and of the world. These folks have lived on the ice there entire lives and that goes both ways. The point is that “Ice Capades” is a high class skating attraction.

Tyrrell got into the ice skating about the time Sonja Heine became the rage, and boxing began to suffer from the Mike Jacob’s monopoly. Boxing is still close to Pete’s heart and even now he is associated with the Arena in Phila-delphia. “Butthere is nothing to compare with the ice skating business” says Pete. “And it’s only beginning to ‘catch on’ in cities and centers like New Orleans.”

Any city that likes opera will like the ice ballerina, the Waltz and ballet, Tyrrell added. “It’s an art that will appeal to all. For those who like a laugh, there’s the slapstick stuff provided by the comedians. Then there’s the rhythm girl, the apache dancer, the juggler, the figure skaters and the novelty numbers. This is one of the best companies ever put together. Every one who see it will come back a second time,maybe a third. “It’s been that way everywhere” (New Orleans ITEM. Dated June 17th 1940 page 18)

You say that my father was only and investor, if so why is his name on the inside cover of the 1940 and early 1941 Program books, as Business Manager? Why was he written up by Fred Digby as: “For Pete has put together one of the finest ice skating attractions it has been my pleasure to witness. And I have seen Sonja Heine’s troupe, too”. Dad was quiet and allowed others to blow his horn for him, as he was secure in what he was doing and never had to blew his own horn On the Web Page http://icecapades.home.comcast.net are scans of three 1941 edition programs. The first and second from program books prior to Harris being elected President, the second after Harris took office. Dad merely listed his name as Business Manager, where as Harris had to have his Picture and those of the Board of Directors and in his Self Horn Blowing style his picture had to be larger.

See: First Page of 1941 Ice Capades program for run at Atlantic City July 19th to Sept 2, 1940 (Where is John Harris?) (President Tyrrell listed himself as Business Manager without a picture)

See: First Page of 1941 program for run in New Orleans Sept 2 thru 12, 1940 (Again where is John Harris?) (President Tyrrell listed himself as Business Manager without a picture)

See: Inside Front Cover of 1941 program for run in Hollywood opening April 18, 1941. Harris succeeded Tyrrell as President in Feb of 1941 and this is how he blew his horn after his election. His Picture was larger than the other directors and His unknown name was more important, in his mind,than "Russell Markert - Radio City Music Hall" Who staged and Directed the 1941 Ice Capades.

If you are not convinced by the above documented facts that Pete Tyrrell was the founder and first President and Harris the second president, you must really be from Missouri or suffer from Alzheimer's Disease.

You seem to have a habit of assuming things that are not true. I never said that I was a Judge. My honorific, Honorable is the result of being elected and serving in a public office. I am not a joke, just an honest man who is trying to correct the false history Wikipedia, amongst others, has been spreading around regarding the founding of Ice Capades. Why do some people seem to want to rewrite history and give credit to others for someone else’s achievements. In this case my father’s accomplishments? Am I going to have to go to court, to make Wikipedia tell the truth?

Had John started Ice Capades, it would have probably joined Ice Vanities in the scrap can, back in 1940. Harris and Tyrrell were not only involved with Ice Capades, but were two of the eleven founders of the BAA/NBA in 1946. On June 6, 1946, the first meeting of the Basketball Association of America (BAA), as the newly formed league was called, was held at the Hotel Commodore in New York. The original members were the Boston Celtics, owned by Walter Brown, the Chicago Stags, owned by Arthur Morse, the Cleveland Rebels, owned by the Olympia (a hockey team), the New York Knickerbockers, owned by Irish, the Philadelphia Warriors, owned by Peter Tyrell, the Pittsburgh Ironmen owned by John Harris, the Providence Steamrollers, owned by Lou Pieri, the St. Louis Bombers, owned by Emory Jones, the Toronto Huskies, owned by the Maple Leaf Gardens, and the Washington Capitals, owned by Mike Ulrine. The Harris team folded before the start of the Second Season. The Tyrrell team won the Championship the first year, and produced the League’s first Super Star. Today there are only three of the eleven original teams still in existence. The Knickerbockers, Celtics and Warriors.

The Harris founded team lasted 1 year, The Tyrrell founded team has lasted 61 years. (Now The Golden State Warriors)

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk • contribs) 05:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MR. HONORABLE PETER A. TYRELL JR. STOP THE INSANITY. BECAUSE OF YOU, THIS MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF HISTORY ON WIKIPEDIA HAS BEEN RUINED BY YOUR RANTING AND RAVINGS. YOU CERTAINLY HAVE A FEW PIECES OF OLD PICTURES, PROGRAMS AND ONE JUST ONE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE MENTIONING YOUR FATHER. BY MAKING THE SORRY STINK THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT WHO'S WHO IN ICE CAPADES HISTORY, YOU HAVE ACTUALLY DISGRACED YOUR FATHER'S VALUABLE CONTRIBUTION TO HELPING START A GREAT INSTITUTION. IT'S VERY SAD AND I FEEL SORRY FOR YOUR FATHERS LEGACY THAT YOU'VE TARNISHED.

AND WHEN DID I EVER ACT LIKE I WAS FROM MISSOURI? PLEASE, I'VE NEVER EVEN BEEN TO MISSOURI BUT IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SHOW ME STATE THEN I'M SURE SOME REDNECK WOULDN'T MIND YOU CONTACTING HIM AND EXPLAINING THE PROBLEM. ANOTHER THING...DON'T YOU HAVE TO BE OLD LIKE YOU TO HAVE ALZHERIMER'S???

AND SERIOUSLY.....WHAT IS UP WITH YOUR DAD STARTING THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS.....DON'T TELL ME, DON'T TELL ME.....YOUR FATHER AND WAS THE FIRST MAN ON THE MOON....NEIL ARMSTRONG WAS THE SECOND MAN ON THE MOON AND HE WAS JUST BLOWING HIS OWN HORN!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bicklecity (talk • contribs) 09:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

“Achievement Jumpers”

The above posting by Travis Bickle doesn’t warrant a reply, as he gives no facts regarding the subject, just insults and shouting. Why he, as well as Wikipedia, wants to be an “Achievement Jumper” or one who credits himself or and other person with someone else’s achievements, such as crediting John Harris with my father’s achievements. For the benefit of those persons seeing Mr. Bickle’s unfounded argument and insults, I would like to clear the air.

What Mr. Bickle refers to are the 1940 and early 1941 programs, shown on web page http://icecapades.home.comcast.net as old programs. He doesn’t seem to understand that "old" proceeds "later." The inside front pages of the first and earliest in Ice Capades program books show that Pete Tyrrell was, Business Manager, as he called himself. The name John Harris did not appear in any program until after he followed Tyrrell as company president in February 1941. The later program in the spring of 1941 showed the Harris name for the first time.

The old picture he refers to is the World Premiere Picture, taken on June 16, 1940, in New Orleans, LA. Peter A. Tyrrell is receiving the traditional flowers. John Harris is nowhere to be seen in the opening night picture. This picture is pure proof of history, not someone’s opinion; it is absolute proof that Pete Tyrrell started Ice Capades, not John Harris.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tyrrell1940.jpg

The old article, Mr. Bickle refers to, just happened to be by Fred Digby of the New Orleans Item; Digby, the sports editor, named and was co-founder of the Sugar Bowl Game. The following was taken from Wikipedia on the Sugar Bowl heading. In New Orleans, Louisiana, the idea of a New Year's Day football game was first presented in 1927 by Colonel James M. Thomson, publisher of the New Orleans Item, and Sports Editor Fred Digby. Every year thereafter, Digby repeatedly called for action, and even came up with the name "Sugar Bowl" for his proposed football game. The Article by Mr. Digby is shown on http://icecapades.home.comcast.net. There is no mention of John Harris in this article which was published in the New Orleans Item, June 17, 1940 edition, the day following the Ice Capades World Premier. This again is true history, the documented daily events, and people, of the day.

Mr. Bickle’s remarks regarding his being from Missouri are self-explanatory. His unresearched remarks regarding the Warriors basketball team, deserve a comment. My father was one of the eleven founders of the NBA. His team, the Philadelphia Warriors, was sold to Eddie Gottlieb, who in turn sold the franchise to a group, who moved the team to California.

[ NO ONE CARES ] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bicklecity (talk • contribs) 07:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

The following web pages are proof of my father's having started the team which is now the Golden State Warriors. Search:Formation of the NBA , Search: Golden State Warriors , Search: Golden State Warriors Tickets,Search: Cheap Golden State Warriors Tickets

Why does Wikipedia desire to publish information, which has no basis in fact? Why would John Harris get the idea for an Ice Show by observing that Figure Skating Acts, between the periods in a hockey game drew people to the games in 1940? After he had seen his Arena sell out for four nights in a row with Ice Follies back in 1937? This is documented in the book Eddie Shipstead Ice Follies Star on page 106. On the subject of the 1937 show the following is noted: Their Springfield, Massachusetts, appearance was an unqualified success and the engagement the Duquesne Garden in Pittsburgh “bought down the house.” There they played a four night stand, with a packed house at each performance.

The only reference to Harris being the first President is in, F. F. Hamilton Jr.’s book, which has many errors. He makes reference to Ice Capades being started by the Arena Managers Association, of which refers to Harris as being the Association’s President in 1940. However Ice Capades was started by only Ten Members of the association, Detroit and Chicago already had an interest in Holiday on Ice. Montreal and Toronto inter alia were also members of the association, but had no interest in Ice Capades. On page 12 of his book he states that Pete Tyrrell, designated as Business Manager, “from the Philadelphia Arena, organized and signed the talent for the first production which started rehearsals at the Arena in May”. Perhaps Mr. Hamilton was confused that John Harris, President of the Arena Managers Association was also President of Ice Capades, as he was no doubt the under the apprehension that the entire Arena Managers Association started Ice Capades. Why did Metromedia present Pete Tyrrell with the Silver Bowl to honor him as the shows first President in 1965, on the shows twenty-fifth anniversary. This was ten years before Hamilton published his book, yet Hamilton was an employee of Metromedia, in 1964 and should have been aware of the Companies activities in 1965. As I have pointed out before, in earlier posts, Hamilton made many errors; even his page 12 is in conflict with his page 14 of his book.

I have proven many things regarding Peter Tyrrell’s efforts in starting Ice Capades and it is about time that Wikipedia stopped trying to re-write history, or “Achievement Jump” On John Harris’s behalf.

1. I have produced the Picture of the Grand Opening of Ice Capades on June 16,1940, showing Pete Tyrrell receiving the traditional Flowers. John Harris is not in the picture. (click to enlarge)

[ Anyone with eyes can see the little girl is clearly holding flowers and obviously not presenting them to ANYONE. It is clear that she is looking forward with her face and body towards the audience and not turned to anyone else or in anyway presenting the flowers. ] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bicklecity (talk • contribs) 07:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

• 

2. I have produced a picture of the Silver Bowl presented to Pete Tyrrell, as the Companies First President, on the shows twenty-fifth anniversary. (click to enlarge)

• 

3 I have presented Peter Tyrrell’s biography, as written in the National Cyclopedia of American Biography. Which states, that he started Ice Capades and was the Companies First President? (Entire Biography is included in a ptior post)

4. I have produced the first programs, which have Pete Tyrrell’s name on the Inside front page as “Business Manager.” (Harris is not mentioned in any Program book, until after he became the second president in February of 1941.) http://icecapades.home.comcast.net

5. I have presented a reprint of the column by Fred Digby, on Pete Tyrrell, which was published on June 17, 1940, in the New Orleans Item. There is no mention of John Harris in this article, which was published on the day following the Ice Capades grand opening. http://icecapades.home.comcast.net

The above information should be sufficient to prove the founder and First President of Ice Capades was Peter A. Tyrrell. Can anyone show that John Harris was anywhere near New Orleans on June 16th 1940 ? Why would John Harris sign the talent and rehearse the new show in Pete Tyrrell’s Arena rather ten in his own the Duquesne Garden in Pittsburgh? Why didn’t John Harris put his name and picture in the first programs, as he did after he was elected President in Feb. of 1941, when the show was one year old? Why are there no News Paper clippings regarding Harris attending the first performance of the show.

Note: In his very first Post Travis Bickle posted the following:

You must be in some serious denial or possibly smoking crack because both my grandfather and father worked for John Harris in Pittsburgh, PA and were both there when Ice Capades was founded. I happen to have in my possesion the original documents that verify that John Harris founded, started and was the sole owner and president of the Ice Capades up until it's sale to John Kluge and Metromedia and I am one of the largest holders of Ice Capades documents in relation to its business dealings from 1940-1986. You need to get your facts straight and accept your legacy as it is.

(Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk) 23:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)) (Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk) 23:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC))

Peter A. Tyrrell Jr....stop trying to give credit where it is not due. You are certainly trying very hard to justify something here but what it really does to you and your family legacy in the eyes of the reader is to make you look foolish. You obviously don't know how much of a fool you make yourself look like by trying to bash on John Harris and his business accomplishments regardless of whether he started the Ice Capades or not. John Harris was not just rich, he was very wealthy and powerful. Is it this wealth and power you so desire??

The facts are true, the Ice Capades may have been started by a conglomerate of arena managers and from your continued claims, your father may have been the first president but it has been clearly marked in history that his title/job/association with the Ice Capades lasted a very short time. Furthermore, how can you look yourself in the mirror everyday and tell yourself that your father was solely responsible for the entire and lasting success of the Ice Capades? The Ice Capades was a success not because of your father but due to a collaborative effort of hundreds of talented management, staff, technicians and most of all the exciting and talented figure skaters who made the show what it was. I heard your father was a nice man, someone who did a good job at managing arena's. On the other hand, I was told that your ranting and raving was to be expected.

In terms of being from Missouri, stop insulting the fine people of Missouri, you make yourself look like a pathetic and ignorant jackass. As for your father founding the NBA, I contacted the NBA offices in New York and they have never heard of your father so please put that fallacy to rest as well. We are all tired of your duplicate photographs, rare newspaper clippings and silver cups. You have ruined the experience of the Ice Capades for all by your incessant claim of fame and deserving honor of your father.

You also need to stop bashing the History of the Ice Capades by Frank Hamilton, you make yourself look like a fool. If you had the real balls to take Wikipedia to court, you already would have. So, please, stop threatening litigation as it also makes you look acutely pathetic. Just stop your nonsense and let history be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bicklecity (talk • contribs) 07:24, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Rearranged Talk Page

This talk page was rather a mess, with some posts out of chronological order and some posts exceedingly long with hardly any subject headings. I have done some rearranging, without any change of content (except for one deleted post that I restored). Please remember to add new posts to the bottom of the page, and try to avoid unnecessary length, as it drives away casual readers who might help resolve the dispute.

Sometime later, I'll read through this more carefully and give an opinion on the substance of the dispute. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 19:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Break

I HAVE A QUESTION RELATED TO THE SHOWS, DID THEY TRAVEL BY TRAIN IN THE 1940's?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.209.178 (talk) 17:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

YES THEY DID —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bicklecity (talk • contribs) 05:12, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Was John Harris feeble minded?

Wikipedia keeps entering the false story regarding John Harris getting the Idea for Ice Capades in 1940 after seeing that the crowd increased when he put on ice skating acts during Ice Hockey periods. This “Fairy Tale was no doubt started by relatives and the children of Harris Employees who were not even born when the following historic item took place in 1937. If Harris sold out the Garden in Pittsburgh for four nights with Ice Follies, the show which Ice Capades was patterned after, why did it take three additional years for him to get the idea, was he feeble minded?

The answer was of course is no, John was a very intelligent man, whom I knew well. An interesting story took place in 1958. I stopped in London England on my way back from Turkey. I had just crossed the street at Trafalgar Square in London and passed John Harris on the crowded sidewalk. We both immediately recognized one another, changed greetings and commented on what a Small World it was.

The following excerpts should prove that the “Hockey Period” story is pure nonsense. Lets retrieve Wikipedia’s reputation and get the true story in the Ice Capades entry.

Pages 105 and 106 of the book Eddie Shipstead, Ice Follies Star by L. E. Leipold, Ph.D. T. S. Denison & Company Inc. Publishers Minneapolis

Two Years of "Bigger and Better" Follies

         All through the first season of the Ice Follies,

critical viewings of the show's offerings were made with the thought in mind that improvements were to be made for the next season's production. Each Performance was judged separately and thought was given to possible new numbers to be produced. At the end of the season, conferences were held to talk over every conceivable point. The result was that when the summer season began in 1937, the show was bigger and better in almost every detail.

The Follies took on an international flavor with the signing up of such world-known favorites as Ida Papez and Karl Zwack, Austrian and Europem skating Champions, respectively.

Once again, Eddie and Oscar appeared on the program as a comedy team in a number called "The Bullfight" and later they again performed as "The Old Timers." Roy was billed as "The Human Top" and throughout the season captivated every audi-

105

106 EDDIE SHIPSTAD, ICE FOLLIES STAR

ence before whom he performed. They played in St. Paul early in the year, special pleasure being theirs to appear in the city where they had skated as boys and where their professional career had begun. This was indeed the fulfillment of the dream that had so long been theirs. In Muskegon, Michigan, they noted that their new type of show was not as yet being fully accepted, for only two pages of the 24-page program (which sold for 10c) was devoted to the Ice Follies. The remaining 22 pages were filled with advertisements and hockey announcements. Appar- ently there were those people who were not quite sure of the status which the future would accord something as new and novel as the Ice Follies. :

         Their Springfield, Massachusetts,

was an unqualified success and the engagement at the Duquesne Garden in Pittsburgh "brought down the house." There they played a four-night stand, with a packed house at each performance. There a 24-page booklet was printed with a beautiful cover, selling for 25c. In this program, the word "ballet" was used for the first time to describe one of the dance routines. "

In regards to Bickle Cities stupid post in his attempt to re-write history.

He mentioned that John Harris was a very rich man, but omitted the following information:

Harris Theater (Pittsburgh) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  

John H. Harris was the son of [John P. Harris, who was a co-founder of the Nickelodeon—the first theater solely dedicated to the showing of motion pictures—and a Pennsylvania] State Senator. John P. Harris Passed away in 1926 leaving the Harris chain of movie theatres in Pittsburgh, PA, to his son John H. Harris, who was 25 years old at the time.

He said that he called the NBA office to see if my father was a founder of the league, which is about as stupid as calling the White House Switchboard and asking “who was the Vice President in 1830. He would have received a better answer, if he called the Liberian at the Basketball Hall of Fame, or checked the Wikipedia page on the Golden state Warriors, [2] Or got a copy of The Mogul, a book published about three months ago, where Pete Tyrrell, is listed 10 times in the Index. How many people are mentioned ten times in a book published 35 years following their death?

He came up with the false assupption that Pete Tyrrell may have been the First President but was with the show a very short time. I have more than proven that Pete Tyrrell was the first Presdident. Pete also supervised the production of the first three editions, even when Harris was President. The first Ediition was rehearsed in the Philadelphia in May 1940. The Second in Atlantic City, when he was President and Business Manager. The Third in Atlantic City, when Harris was President and Pete was Chairman of the Production and Booking Committees*

• See Inside front page cover of Souvenir Program for 1941 for Atlantic City Auditorium.

On another subject the article says that John Harris sold the show to Metromedia. Technically this is true, but fails to mention that John was acting on a vote of The Board Of Directors which he was opposed to the sale, which Pete Tyrrell negotiated with John Kluge, President of Metromedia. Kluge is alive at 94 and still the 32 richest American. Lets stop Wikipedia being a pawn of false “HISTORY” distribution and their making John Harris look stupid. Lets tell the truth fellows!!! Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk) 21:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter A. Tyrrell Jr. (talk • contribs) 21:22, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you to the very well informed Sheridan family

As a member of the family, I was horrified to see my grandfather's wonderful cultural contribution made into a farse. John H. Harris indeed founded the Ice Capades. I would like to thank the Sheridan family. This was the 1st time I looked up The Ice Capades on this site. The Harris family (all of them) know the real story and share it with those who are interested in the real history. Google John H. Harris, the Hornets & Ice Capades and the story is there. I have heard it my entire life & I doubt my mother would leave out any details. As my father is no longer with us. The history will continue to be passed along the way it has been for decades. Parent to child.

Factual accuracy

I've done a lot of recent research on the Ice Capades and this article. I note the strongly held ideas of Tyrrell and Harris friends/relatives regarding the "first president" of the Ice Capades. Unfortunately for us all, reliable sources differ on the matter of who did what and when in those early days. Without taking sides in the matter, several things seem clear to me:

1. Tyrrell took the show on the road to its first performances in New Orleans and maybe Atlantic City.
2. Harris took the show on the road soon after
3. Over the years, Harris' name became closely associated with the show

All three points are pretty strongly supported by reliable sources. If there is consensus on them, I have some suggestions to make about the article.

Let us know. Lou Sander (talk) 14:03, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Chalets

I've removed a paragraph of material about chalets. It was unreferenced, and contained many longstanding fact tags. The essential information, with a reference, is already included in the article. I also removed an unreferenced "popular culture" claim that, if it is even valid, seems to refer to Holiday on Ice, rather than the Ice Capades. Lou Sander (talk) 12:12, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Cultural references

It would be very nice to document the assertion that Ice Capades tickets were featured in sitcom episodes long after the show had disbanded. Unfortunately, that claim isn't referenced. I spent some time looking for references, but found nothing except two Gary Larson cartoons.

The sitcom claims have been challenged for quite a time now, and it's time to either provide some references or remove the material. Who can help? Lou Sander (talk) 13:03, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ice Capades/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Your Story about John Harris starting Ice Capades is pure bunk, Harris was one of the origional directors of the Corporation, founded by the Arena Managers Association, However my father Peter A. Tyrrell was elected President at the meeting held in Hershey PA on Feb. 14, 1940. My father put the first show together and opened Ice Capades in New Orleans LA on June 16, 1940.

Last edited at 09:18, 2 December 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 15:00, 1 May 2016 (UTC)