Talk:I'll Be Gone in the Dark

Requested move April 30, 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page as requested at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 20:20, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

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I'll Be Gone in the Dark: One Woman's Obsessive Search for the Golden State Killer → I'll Be Gone in the Dark – Per WP:SUBTITLES and WP:CONCISE, the lengthy subtitle is discouraged. The subtitle is not needed for disambiguation, and while there may possibly someday be an I'll Be Gone in the Dark (miniseries) by HBO, the book itself, by its short title, is likely to remain a primary topic. --Animalparty! (talk) 20:06, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

What is the general Wikipedia rule or guideline about including/excluding the subtitle? Is there a rule? Or a general practice? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:07, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Also, you mentioned that there may possibly someday be an I'll Be Gone in the Dark (miniseries) by HBO. So are you suggesting the redirect as simply "I'll Be Gone in the Dark"? Or as "I'll Be Gone in the Dark (book)" to disambiguate? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:12, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

The relevant article title guidelines (there are very few firm rules on Wikipedia) are at WP:SUBTITLES and WP:CONCISE, as I mentioned. Article titles need not be the official or full name of a subject, but the title most commonly used, and no more detailed than needed to identify the subject to those knowledgeable of the subject. If additional articles have the name "I'll Be Gone in the Dark", then we'll investigate which, if any, is the primary topic (read Wikipedia:Disambiguation). If, then, the vast majority of uses refer to the book, there is no need to append (book), just as we don't need to add "(singer)" to Michael Jackson, even though there are other people with the same name. Film and TV adaptation titles are generally disambiguated with parenthetical, while the source book retains the primary name: see The Jungle Book or The Great Gatsby. The HBO TV series may not even share the name of the book, so any talk of future disambiguation is extremely hypothetical. --Animalparty! (talk) 22:07, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Well, this hardly seems controversial. Why not just be BOLD and make the change? I would do it myself, but I don't really want to step on anyone's toes, so to speak. I created this article. Had I known all of the above info, I myself would have titled the article as, simply, I'll Be Gone in the Dark, upon my creation of it. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:35, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I normally would have boldly moved, but the pre-existing redirect with a complex edit history precludes moving without the help of an administrator, and I figured the move might be controversial. See Wikipedia:Requested moves for more info. Also, for more complex cases involving disambiguation, sometimes a subtitle is preferred to a parenthetical if it's not too cumbersome. For instance it was decided after discussion that Benoit: Wrestling with the Horror that Destroyed a Family and Crippled a Sport was a preferable title to Benoit (book). Parenthetical terms are only one way to disambiguate: subtitles, commas, alternate capitalization, or natural but less common disambiguation terms can be used per WP:NATURALDIS. With over 5 million articles, and multiple valid names for most subjects, settling on the preferred title sometimes involves trade-offs or compromises between conflicting guidelines. --Animalparty! (talk) 01:30, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support per WP:SUBTITLES and WP:CONCISE as mentioned by nominator. WP:SUBTITLE says, "Usually, a Wikipedia article on a book (or other medium, such as a movie, TV special or video game) does not include its subtitle in the Wikipedia page name ... The only exception to that is short article titles." Melonkelon (talk) 23:38, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

• Support – per my comments above. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:38, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
• Support per the nominator's rationale. ╠╣uw [talk] 10:23, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
• support, nominator's rationale is spot onTheLongTone (talk) 14:50, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.