Talk:Hypericum hircinum

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 18:34, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that stinking tutsan smells like goat? Source: Common name: stinking tutsan. "called goat St John′s wort due to the strong goatlike smell of the leaves." Chemical composition and antimicrobial activity of Hypericum hircinum L. Subsp. majus essential oil
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Espresso and tonic

5x expanded by Fritzmann2002 (talk). Self-nominated at 16:42, 2 December 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Hypericum hircinum; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: 5x expansion. Everything checks out. Good job. gobonobo ^{+ c} 16:10, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Hypericum hircinum/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Grungaloo (talk · contribs) 01:56, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Fritzmann2002, I'm going to take this GAN review on. I'll try to have a complete review to you in the next few days. Ping me if you have any questions in the meantime! grungaloo (talk) 01:56, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Fritzmann2002, I've finished my review. I think this can make GA, but has a few issues that need to be addressed. Most are prose issues, but there are some questions I hope you can clarify related to the Chemistry section. Please let me know if you have questions about what I've written, or let me know once you've addressed them. grungaloo (talk) 21:49, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Some issues, see comments below. Issues addressed, prose is good.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Possible OR/SYN issues, see below, and please correct me if I'm wrong! - Issues corrected, sources support text and prose has been clarified where needed.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Level of detail is good, but could use explanation of where the scent comes from (caproic acid). all important aspects covered.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Meets NPOV

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   No edit warring, good an stable.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Good images, good captions.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   See comments Pass!

Comments

• "The distribution of Hypericum hircinum is continuous across the Mediterranean and parts of the Middle East." - Not required for GA, but consider rewriting to "Hypericum hircinum is continuously distributed across the Mediterranean and parts of the Middle East." Changes it to active voice and sounds better IMO.

• Y Active voice definitely sounds better there

• Use of cm/centimeter - Both ways are used in the Description section, suggest picking one and using it throughout for consistency.

• I use the full name on the first mention of the measurement, and then an abbreviation on subsequent uses. I would prefer to leave it that way if it's all the same to you

• • Works for me!grungaloo (talk)
• "The distance of the stem between each leaf is 0.2–0.9 centimeters long." - Oddly worded, consider removing "of the stem".
• Y Done
• "Their blades are a wide triangular lance-like shape, with a rounded point." - Comma not needed.
• Y Done
• "The flower petals are golden yellow, without any tint of red." - Comma not needed.
• Y Done
• "The ovary is ellipse-shaped, and has styles 3–5 times its length that are upright." - Not required for GA, but consider rewriting to "The ovary is ellipse-shaped, and has upright styles that are 3-5 times its length". Flows a bit better.
• Y Done
• "The seed capsule changes from green to a dull brown as the plant matures, and the seeds are an orange to reddish brown color." - Should be "green to dull brown" - drop a, alternatively you could add a before green.
• Y Done
• Chemistry section - There might be some OR/SYN issues here, although I could just be misreading the source (please let me know if I am).
  • "Hypericum hircinum may contain only trace amounts of them, and only in its flowers." - The way this is written doesn't agree with the source. It seems to say that is does contain those chemicals, but only in trace amounts. I think you need to remove may.

• • This section was a little difficult because there was only one study. Normally, it's better to have a few to establish that these chemicals weren't found erroneously. I included "may" in order to clarify that this one study may have found trace amounts, but it is not certain that they are present until some other studies using different methods confirm that.

• • Gotcha, I know that struggle. In that case I'm OK with this.grungaloo (talk)
  • "However, it does contain other compounds that are uncommon within the genus" - I can't find this in the source either. It doesn't seem to say that these compounds are relatively uncommon, could you find the passage that supports this?

• • Y Thanks for the catch, came from reading the table of compound concentrations incorrectly and errantly using "uncommon" to mean "in lower concentrations". I've rewritten; hopefully this is more clear.

• • "Other isolated compounds include chlorogenic and neochlorogenic acid, small amounts of hyperforin and adhyperforin, and dihydroxybenzoic acid." - Saying "small amounts" seems to indicate that "small" is an objective measure, which the source doesn't seem to say it is. You could change it to "smaller" to get around this, making it a relative term which the source does support.

• • Y That's a great idea, and this is indeed what I was attempting to convey.

• "Additionally, it was depicted in the 1640 volume of Hortus Eystettensis, a revolutionary book of botanical illustrations." - I'd suggest dropping everything after the second comma. It seems like a subjective rhetorical flourish. It's likely true, but maybe better suited to the page on the book itself since it's not relevant to the plant here.

• Y I've dropped "revolutionary", but think it is still warranted to mention the kind of book we are talking about

• • Agreed, I like that!grungaloo (talk)
• Hÿpericon, Androsaemum foeditum, Tragôdes, Ascyroides - MOS:FOREIGN, these should be italicized. There are a few other latin/foreign words used through the Taxonomy section that need this too.

• Y I hesitated to do this at first, because italicization also indicates a formal botanical name, which these are not. However, I think your judgement is better than mine on this, I've gone through and changed them, feel free to italicize any I may have missed if you see them.

• "Hypericum floribus trigynis, staminibus petalo longioribus caule fruticoso." - Should be italic as well.

• Y Done

• "The specific epithet "hircinum" comes from the Latin word "hircīnus" and refers to something that is like a male goat." - The definition is something "of or relating to a he-goat", not necessarily something that is "goat-like" as it's used in this sentence. It's a minor difference, but I'd suggest quoting the definition directly to avoid confusion.

• Y I've quoted the dictionary definition

• "In the United Kingdom, the species is known as stinking tutsan.[15] Elsewhere, it is called goat St John's wort." - Bold not needed here since they're bolded in the lead. Also, "Elsewhere", where is it called this? The source lists it as an alternate name but it doesn't say where exactly it's used.

• Y "Elsewhere" was just meant to denote "not in the UK" since stinking tutsan is just the local name. I've changed to "It is also called..." to clear up confusion, and have unbolded.

@Grungaloo: Thanks for the review, and sorry that the response has taken a few days. Still getting out of holiday mode! I've responded to all of your points, thank you for a thoughtful and thorough review. Let me know if anything needs further addressing and I am happy to give it another look. Fritzmann (message me) 19:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

This all looks great Fritzmann2002, thanks for the work! The only thing missing is adding some info about where the smell comes from (one source says caproic acid). I think that can either go into Description or into Chemistry - your call. I forgot to list that as a comment and just had it in the GA table so sorry for that! grungaloo (talk) 01:39, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I added a brief mention in the chemistry section, should be good to go now! Thanks again, Fritzmann (message me) 22:33, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Awesome. Excellent work - thanks for all your effort on this. I'm promoting this to GA now. Congratulations! grungaloo (talk) 23:59, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.