Talk:Hydrogen

I don't think hydrogen was coined in 1783 by Lavoisier

Exactly as the title says, the citation for that claim doesn't even mention Lavoisier, and after searching around I found a source which claims Lavoisier's writings didn't refer to "inflammable air" as hydrogen for all of 1784 (https://gwern.net/doc/history/1851-wilson-thelifeofthehonhenrycavendish.pdf pages 151-152) and another source which pegs the earliest usage of hydrogen as 1787 in Méthode de nomenclature chimie (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10698-022-09448-5) by Morveau et al. This source also claims to have not found an instance of the term "hydrogen" in Lavoisier's work before 1787.

Given the language of the original source using "we", I also think it's very possible that Lavoisier shouldn't receive full credit and it may be shared with Morveau, although it's hard to confirm as I do not speak French. 2600:1011:A105:25D:4957:979:9E7:4BA8 (talk) 10:41, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the 1783 date was added to the article back in 2006 by the late editor Sbharris. gobonobo ^{+ c} 10:50, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

I raised the question at the Reference Desk and am just going to copy the response here:

The French Wikipedia has an article on the treatise Méthode de nomenclature chimique by Morveau and others, published in 1787. The etymology section for hydrogène of the TLFi only mentions the 1787 treatise.^[1] While this may have been the first publication using the term hydrogène,^[2] Lavoisier praises Morveau in the introduction of this treatise for his major role in designing the new nomenclature. Morveau himself uses the spelling Hidrogène.^[3] Since he explicitly credits Lavoisier for the name oxygène, it is unlikely the name hydrogène is due to specifically Lavoisier. Morveau acknowledges the role of unnamed members of the Académie, as does Lavoisier in the introduction. Morveau published a treatise on the nomenclature in 1782;^[4] it would be interesting to see which name he proposed there for "the base of inflammable air".  --Lambiam 19:32, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

If the first instance of hydrogène in print was the Méthode de nomenclature chimique, we should change the 1783 date. Note that Méthode had four authors: Morveau, Lavoisier, Claude Louis Berthollet, and Antoine François Fourcroy. Based on the sources above, I suggest we change the article to indicate that the naming occurred by 1787 and attribute the coinage to the document rather than to Lavoisier. gobonobo ^{+ c} 16:46, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

I've been researching this obsessively for about a month and I managed to find a source by Morveau in 1786 (without any authorship by Lavoisier, or even Berthollet and Fourcroy) that refers to inflammable air as hydrogen: https://books.google.com/books?id=489jAAAAcAAJ

On page 640 is the first instance discussing renaming inflammable air to hydrogen. This isn't definitive enough for my curiosity but it does definitively push the coining of the term back a year. 2600:1011:A18F:A3A:41FF:CF19:B15B:891 (talk) 14:50, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Edit: after reading further it seems a detail that isn't mentioned anywhere (including the French wikipedia article for the Encyclopédie Méthodique), is that the latter half of the encyclopedia wasn't published until after 1786 (it appears 1789), and the portion I pointed out before in the 2nd Forward is actually taken directly from the 1787 treatise, it's possible that the section on AIR which does contain references to hydrogen was included in the original 1786 version but this seems unlikely given the structure of the text, so disregard the previous comment. 2600:1011:A18F:A3A:41FF:CF19:B15B:891 (talk) 17:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Carton

A Carton Is In Geometry Dash. It's Orange, Its Not A Partition 108.4.251.29 (talk) 22:42, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Move the main image to the phase section and replace it with a new one.

The current main image is hydrogen in its plasma state, but it would make more sense to move that to Hydrogen#Phases. Then replace it with a new better image. Bennett27 (talk) 01:54, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Infrastructure

I would welcome your thoughts at Talk:Hydrogen infrastructure#Merge sub-topics into here Chidgk1 (talk) 18:00, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Hydrogen economy which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Inaccurate to say hydrogen is "explosive" at 4% to 74% in air. This is its flammability range.

Hydrogen's explosivity is listed here as 4% to 74% in air. It's more accurate to say its limit of detonability is 18% to 59%. See, for example, https://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/h2_safety_fsheet.pdf, or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_safety "inerting and purging

This should be amended in the first paragraphs of the "properties" section. Saying it is explosive at 4% gives a false impression about its risks, and feeds into a common misconception that flammability limit = detonation limit. Indeed, citation [21] refers to flammability range, and does not appear to mention explosive mixtures.51.194.9.191 (talk) 13:33, 28 February 2024 (UTC)