Talk:Hurricane Norbert (2008)/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 01:30, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing the article in the next few days. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 01:30, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

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So far, I have only reviewed the article's lede, and I am not impressed. The entire section seems to be just a rehash of the meteorological history of the storm, with very little attention put to what the storm actually did. It needs a significant revamp for it to be an acceptable summary of the article.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   • Late in September, a vigorous tropical wave moved off the west coast of Mexico. On October 3, the wave developed into a tropical depression and then into Tropical Storm Norbert the next day. — Why is this in the lede? Why does it matter? (You are also missing a space after the period of this sentence, and you need to link to weather terms to keep the article from being too technical, but I still think you need to get rid of this sentence anyways.)
     • I have removed the first sentence and wikilinked jargon. Should tropical depression and tropical storm be wikilinked? YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
       • There were still multiple small syntax/grammar errors in the lede, so I just gave it a full copyedit. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 20:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Norbert ultimately became a hurricane on October 7 and rapidly intensified to a Category 2 hurricane and it became a major hurricane on October 8. — You could just said that it rapidly intensified into a major hurricane the day after it formed, instead of going through a laundry list of classification changes.
     • Removed the hurricane and Cat 2 part
   • It continued to strengthen into a Category 4 hurricane before weakening back to a Category 3 by the morning of October 9, and weakened into a Category 1 hurricane that afternoon, but restrengthened into a Category 2 the next day, and became a minimal major hurricane midday on October 11, and it made landfall in Baja California Sur as a Category 2 later that day. — huge run-on sentence, plus most of this information is not needed anyways.
     • Removed everything except the peak and landfall. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • Norbert then hit the mainland of Mexico as a Category 1 hurricane. — too imprecise. The "mainland of Mexico" could be anywhere from Sonora to the Isthmus of Tehuantepec.
     • You'd be happy to no it hit Sonora. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The final advisory on Norbert was issued on the morning of October 12. — Again, why does a person who is not a weather geek care about the final advisory? Why can't you keep it simple and say that it dissipated?
     • Incorporated your suggestion.YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Norbert claimed 25 lives with three people missing and caused $716.4 million in damages throughout Mexico, — $716 million USD or MXN? Is that in present-year dollars or base year dollars?
     • 2008 USD. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
   • with the worst damage in Baja California and Almos, Sonora. — it's Álamos, not Almos.
     • Got it. I also saw this in other places in the article and was bold and fixed it. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
       • One more thing here: You say that Norbert caused the worst damage in Baja California and Álamos, Sonora. — linking to Baja California implies that it did most of its damage to the northern half of the peninsula. Link to the article on the peninsula, or just say Baja California Sur. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 20:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
         • Ill just say BCS. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The origins of Norbert were from a tropical wave the crossed Central America on September 26 and September 27. — the → that
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • which at that time was mentioned on the Tropical Weather Outlook.[2] — the link given for Tropical Weather Outlook does not mention anything about it, so you need to find something different.
     • I believe the TCR mentions that. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
       • That's not my point. The National Hurricane Center article doesn't mention anything about what a TWO is for the non-expert reader. You need to find a better link for this. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 20:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
       • Can't find a link so I explained what it is, but it probably need a c/e.
   • and satellite intensity estimates using the Dvorak technique suggested tropical storm force winds; — suggested what about the tropical storm force winds? That they went out to eat chicken? You also need a hyphen between storm and force.
     • Haha, they suggest that the system had tropical storm force winds and added the hyphen.YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
   • On October 7, it reached Category 2 intensity on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale — you are starting a paragraph with a pronoun, which makes it unclear what antecedent you are using (even if it is fairly obvious from context). Rephrase.
     • Switched "it" to "hurricane Norbert"
   • while Norbert developed well defined and closed eyewall via Microwave imagery.[9] — a well-defined and closed eyewall as seen in microwave imagery.
     • Fixed, I also made minor jargon tweaks. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
       • You didn't add the hyphen and now it says micorwave imagery. — microwave
   • Overnight on October 8, an eye appeared on infrared satellite, indicating that Norbert was intensifying and was upgraded to a major hurricane respectively.[10] — the eye was upgraded to a major hurricane? What? (Split the sentences, you are talking about two different things here.)
     • Switched to the storm.YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • Continuing to rapidly strengthen over warm sea surface temperatures, it reached Category 4 status late on October 8, after intensifying 45 mph (75 km/h) over the previous 24 hours. — again, unclear antecedent; it = eye or it = Norbert? (It should be obvious which way to fix this.)
     • Norbert. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The storm peak intensity was 135 mph (215 km/h) and a peak pressure of 945 mbar (hPa; 27.91 inHg) while located 350 mi (560 km) south of Cabo San Lucas, Mexico. — the storm's peak intensity; link units, as they are not common; link Cabo San Lucas
     • Will do but what should hPa link to. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
       • hPa = hectopascal = Pascal (unit). Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 20:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The peak intensity of Norbert is uncertain as aircraft observations were lower the classifications via Dvorak Technique.[1] — than the classifications (and you should probably use a more meaningful word, like "estimates"); also, what does "lower" mean in this context? Lower wind speeds (weaker storm) or lower central pressure (stronger storm)? You need to clarify this.
     • Clarified, but I don't like my new wording. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 04:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
       • Ok. Try "aircraft-based wind speed observations". Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 20:38, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
       • Used your suggestion. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • However, the cloud patter became less impressive early on October 9, and was thus downgraded into a Categor y3 hurricane, with winds of 125 mph (205 km/h).[11] — cloud pattern; Category 3, not Categor y3; and why did the storm start to weaken anyways? Colder SSTs? Shear?
     • The discussion did not say. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • At that time, it was downgraded into a weak Category 1 hurricane by October 9.[1] — you have two temporal clauses in the sentence ("at the time", "by October 9"), which makes the sentence sound weird. Fix please.
     • Switched "by" to "on". YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • On October 10, Norbert turned northbound — you don't turn northbound. You turn northward or towards the north.
     • Changed to "towards the north". YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Norbert began to re-intensify as the cycle completed. — spell out eyewall replacement cycle here, as it has been a while since you mentioned what "cycle" stands for in this instance.
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The cyclone turned to the north-northeast due to a mid to upper level trough that was moving over the Southwest United States. — don't link to compass directions
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Norbert managed to restrengthen into a minimal major hurricane on 0600 UTC October 11, — what is a "minimal major hurricane"?
     • A cat 3. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • A hurricane warning was issued on October 10 for parts of central Baja California from Puerto San Andresito southward to Agua Blanca, and they extended around the peninsula from La Paz to Loreto. — link to tropical cyclone watches and warnings; see if there are suitable links to Puerto San Andresito, and Agua Blanca; definitely link La Paz and Loreto.
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
       •  Not done — the link is broken. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
         • Surgery had been performed on the link and is successful.YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • The warnings also went on the mainland west coast from Topolobampo to Guaymas. — link to both Topolobampo and Guaymas; I don't like "went on", it sounds too informal. Try "warnings were also put in place for the west coast of Sonora from Topolobampo to Guaymas."
     • Took you suggestion. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
       • And you didn't link either city. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
         • I did now. :P YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Hurricane watches were issued from Agua Blanca to Cabo San Lucas, — same here, don't assume the reader knows what a hurricane watch is.
     • Wikilinked jagron. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
       • It's a redlink. Remember that the page is located at tropical cyclone watches and warnings, not tropical cyclones watches and warnings. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
         • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • and extended around the Baja peninsula to La Paz, and these same areas were also under tropical storm warnings as well. — use a semicolon after La Paz, and remove the "and" after the semicolon.
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Tropical storm warnings also extended from Loreto northward to Mulege — link Mulegé and fix the accent mark on the last e
     • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
       • And the link you added is also broken. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
         • Surgery had been done on it. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • On October 10, officials in Baja California declared the municipalities of Loreto, Comondú y La Paz disaster areas in anticipation of severe damage from the hurricane.[13] — link to the individual municipalities (see Municipalities of Baja California Sur for links). Also, why do you have a random Spanish conjunction there? It's and, not "y".
     • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
       • Also, switch it from "disaster areas" to "as disaster areas". Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Los Cabos Mayor, Oscar Nunez, — awkward phrasing. "The mayor of Los Cabos" would be less confusing
     • Fixed, but I still mention it's name. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
       • And you introduced an error there. It's Los Cabos, not Los Cobos. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The local civil protection official stated bridges are ready to begin evacuating. — why "are" and not "were"?
     • Were. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
       • But you didn't fix it. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
   • In Ciudad Obregon, farmers rushed to fertilize the fields prior to the passage of Norbert[14] — link to Ciudad Obregón, Sonora; why do you have a random tidbit about Sonora in a paragraph almost completely devoted to Baja California Sur? What else happened in Sonora?
     • I never knew that was in Sonora. I don't think I found anything else for Sonora other than watches/warnings. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 17:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
   • and local officials were "very worried". — ; put the period inside the quotation marks
     • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
       • No you didn't. The article that you use as reference does not contain that quote. Added the {{fact}} tag in the article. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 21:07, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

• • • • • I though it did, removed the quote. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

1. • officials estimated that damages from the hurricane was MXN 8.8 billion 2008 MXN ($650 million USD).[13] — you have MXN twice there. Remove the first instance and link the second one instead. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 22:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • According to tourism officials, hotel reservations were down 40% in Los Cobos and Loreto Roofs were ripped off buildings and many trees were damaged. — Los Cabos
     • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • On the islands of Margarita and Magdalena, 40% of homes received some damage, mostly roof damage. — it's "Santa Margarita", not "Margarita"; links to Isla Magdalena (Baja California Sur) and Isla Santa Margarita would be appreciated here.
     • Yay, we have articles on these islands. I've wikilinked them. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The La Paz airport closed prior to the arrival of the system, — we have an article on the La Paz airport (Manuel Márquez de León International Airport); why are you linking to the city instead? Change it.
     • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • but the Los Cobos airport remained open throughout the passage of the tropical cyclone.[18] — there is no such thing as Los Cobos, it's Los Cabos, and we also have an article on the Los Cabos International Airport itself.
     • Wiki linked it. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • a few last-minute drivers failed to close their car doors on streets with fallen trees. — this makes no sense whatsoever

$:** Reworded, but I don't think it makes sense. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

1. • Rescue workers had to rescue many Mexicans in low lying areas from their wood and metal homes. — sheet metal, otherwise the sentence says something completely different.
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • In a drive-thru entrance, a happy hour sing was ripped off due to strong winds. — a happy hour sign?
     • • Common mistake by me. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Due to the hurricane, one visitor moved his trailer to a hotel as Norbert neared the Baja California Sur.[19] — also makes no sense, and I don't even see why this is relevant.
     • Removed the sentence. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Local residents seeked to shelters by school buses and army trucks as floodwaters entered thier homes. — sought shelter, not seeked to shelters
     • Reworded, and fixed the typo. 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The storm also affected cruise ships. While Carnival Pride and Island Princess survived the worst of the hurricane, the Carnival Elation was expected arrive one day earlier than initially anticipated.[21] — all the ship names must be italicized. Also, it's "was expected to arrive".
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • A total of 25 people were killed [23] five of which were in Álamos.[1] — you need a comma before reference 23.
     • Added. 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Total damages in Sonora, excluding the town of Álamos was estimated at MXN 800 million ($59.1 million).[26] — total damage; also, the formatting for your damage totals is weird. it's $800 million (year MXN, $59.1 million year USD). You also need to put which the base year of the damage sums for inflation adjustments.
     • Added the year. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • At the port of Topolobampo rough seas from the storm sank four ships and damaged 70 others. — comma after Topolobampo
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Roughly 6,000 people were left homeless in Sinaloa as hundreds of homes were damaged or destroyed by Norbert.[25] — finish talking about Sonora before starting to talk about Sinaloa. Both are state-level political entities, like Baja California and Baja California Sur. Also you need to link to Sinaloa, since you hadn't mentioned it before anywhere.
     • It's been moved. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The town of Álamos sustained the most severe damage in the area, with damage in the town exceeding MXN 200 million ($14.7 million).[24] — fix the damage figure and add the base year for inflation calculations.
     • Added. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • In Alamo, water rushed down the mountains nearby, — '
     • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Some scared residents fled to rooftops and higher ground.A total of 95 homes were destroyed — add a space after the period.
     •  Done
   • A total of 95 homes were destroyed and concrete walls were knocked down. Cars and trucks smashed in trees. — how are the links to "cars", "trucks", "walls" and "trees" helpful to the reader here?
     • De-linked them. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Furniture and other personal items were on the streets after the storm.[27] — why is "streets" linked here?
     • See above. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:35, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The fishing industry in Sinaloa sustained severe losses, with 200 shrimp boats being destroyed leaving MXN 8 million ($600,000) in damages.[28] — fix the damage figure and add the base year for inflation calculations.
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • On October 14, Governor Eduardo Bours Castelo of Sonora — link to Eduardo Bours
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
   • The municipalities of Ahome, El Fuerte, Choix, Guasave and Sinaloa de Leyva were declared disaster areas following the storm, — link to all of these municipalities; links are available at Municipalities of Sinaloa. (Also, Sinaloa de Leyva is a city, not a municipality. Was the city declared a disaster area or was it the municipality?)
     • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

   • From the comments above, fails WP:LEAD.

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   • Reference 1: Add |format=PDF.
   • References 5, 9, 10: Lixod Avila (2008-10-04). — Lixion Avila
   • References 3–6 spell out the number of the discussion ("One", "Five"); references 7–10 just use the numeral ("13", "18"). Be consistent.
   • References 14–15: Association Press — Associated Press
   • Reference 16: This is not an AP story. This wire story was made by Agence France-Presse. Also, "Writer" does not need to be capitalized.
   • Reference 18: This is also an AFP story, not AP.
   • Reference 19: "Ruters" — Reuters
   • Reference 20: Association Press — Associated Press
     • Fixed the ones up to this one. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 18:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
   • References 14—20: AP, AFP and Reuhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hurricane_Norbert_(2008)/GA2&action=editters should be given with the |agency= parameter in {{cite news}}.
     • Yeah, but the refs are in {{cit web}}. Should I change it? YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:57, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Reference 21: Capitalize "Cruise critic". The article has a byline, so "staff writer" is inappropriate in this case.
     • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:57, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Reference 23: "Evangel" needs to be italicized.
   • Reference 24 is broken.
   • Reference 25: La Jordana — La Jornada
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • Reference 26: Notimex should be given in |agency=, not |author=.
     • Switched. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:57, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
   • Reference 27: The reference is unformatted (check the title parameter) , and I am not sure it meets WP:RS.
     • Added a title and I am unsure about wheater it is reliable or not myself. If this article went to the WP:FAC (it probably wont), i'd probably remove it. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}
   • Reference 28: Same as reference 25.
     •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   • I identified the only place where additional citation is needed with a {{fact}} tag.
     • This had been fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:40, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

   C. No original research:

   • No concerns here.

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   • My main concern is that the article seems to gloss over the impact in Sinaloa. If there were multiple municipalities with federal disaster declarations, one vague sentence describing the impact in the state is not going to cut it for me.
     • I added some more. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:57, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   • All images confirmed to be in the public domain.

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   • No concerns here.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   The main problem is the lack of Sinaloa impact, so I'm putting the article on hold until that is resolved. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 22:21, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

   There isn't any US impact either, which I believe is problematic. These sorts of storms usually cause US impact. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:25, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

   I've added what little US impact I found. I did find this, but I am unsure if it was related to Norbert. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}16:49, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

   No, but NCDC does have stuff for New Mexico that should be included. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

   I've given plenty of time for the deficiencies in the article to be corrected, and they have not been fully resolved to my satisfaction, primarily when it comes to fixing blatant typos. As such, I cannot stall this nomination any longer, and I'm failing the article. Please renominate this article when you fix all the points given above. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 19:11, 7 September 2011 (UTC)