Talk:Hurricane Manuel

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the link on See more detailed information. doesnt work and its in the pazific not in the atlantic ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.220.88.147 (talk) 16:59, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Combined information in the sources... should articles of Manuel and Ingrid be merged?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

It is clear that there is unanimous consensus against a merging of Hurricane Manuel (2013) and Hurricane Ingrid (2013). Given that this discussion has gone without any new commentary for nearly three weeks now, I am closing this. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 02:09, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

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There are no sources for the alleged death toll of 84 people, as stated in the article.

Also, I have tried to find any source that distinguish the deaths nor damage by Ingrid from Manuel’s, but they appear together. Perhaps, wouldn’t it be reasonable to merge the articles about both cyclones, because of the particularity of this case? ... or to specify that it is a combined data from two cyclones?

Examples:

• Manuel and Ingrid: 145 deaths Aumentan a 145 los muertos por Manuel e Ingrid, informador.com.mx

• Manuel and Infrid: Damage to 35,000 houses Manuel e Ingrid dejan al desnudo corrupción, frivolidad y falta de planeación, SDPnoticias.com

• Manuel and Ingrid: Losses of almost US$6 billion Manuel e Ingrid dejaron pérdidas por 75 mil mdp: AMIS, eluniversal.mx

190.166.6.108 (talk) 08:26, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

84 deaths is addition from everything in the article. Granted, I have not checked impact reports in days, but last week, when I saw some sources tat talk about just Manuel. Manuel did other impact in Sinaloa, which is IMO notable enough for an article on it's own. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 12:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose merge, the hurricanes are notable by their own to be in one article. I was thinking to create an article in my sandbox based upon Effects of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, because the effects go beyond the current information both articles have, but I wouldn't do it until November or December. If somebody is bold enough to create it, a merge is unnecessary and probably incorrect (Manuel didn't affect Tamaulipas, as far as I know). Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 08:50, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose merge, those 2 storms are nowhere near being one and the same. Separate storms should always have their own articles; not sharing articles. Those articles should definitely not be merged. Whose idea was this anyways?? LightandDark2000 (talk) 06:12, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose – This is complete nonsense. They were two different systems. United States Man (talk) 04:24, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you. LightandDark2000 (talk) 00:21, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

• Slight Oppose merge, it looks like there are some sources that talk about them together, and they are often associated, but I would still keep Ingrid and Manuel separate, as Manuel did other damage elsewhere. pie3141527182 (talk) 15:50, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose - different storm histories and impact areas. Yes they are associated with each other option, but their meteorological histories were different and warrant separate mention. CrazyC83 (talk) 21:42, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Merge - While impact from both hurricanes did overlap one another in some locations, damage from the two individually is still discernible. I see no reason to combine the articles together. In addition, the TCR on both in a few months should be helpful. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 18:44, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose Absurd proposal. They were two separate storms of little more than coincidental occurrence and thus take two separate articles. TornadoLGS (talk) 04:37, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Deaths/Damage

FYI, in response to this, this goes with new deaths/damage. However, I am semi-skeptical of this total, for one, the article sources EMDAT for the damage, which does not even mention Manuel. In addition, it seems like a drastic increase with at first glance, has no additional backing. Thoughts? YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 21:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Long time no see, a blog post from Dr. Jeff Masters also supports the claim Manuel did 4.2 billion in damage and killed 169 people. It also says Ingrid killed 23 and did 1.5 billion in damage. But before we put that in, would that qualify as WP:RS? I believe it would. Rye998 (talk) 14:44, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Rye, IMO JM is marginally reliable, but JM's total just seems too high. TAWX had an awesome idea, this, but the source provided mentions economical losses, not total damage, which I was told here that economical losses does not count as total damage. Tbh, I think that estimate is a bit high anyway, and I don't know why the missing people were removed, when the source mentions nothing about missing people. Still, I like the source used, though I am torn over whether to revert or not. For now, ill leave it as is; I feel bad on how I've reverted so many edits on this page within the past week. Any comments? YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:05, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

I too think the 4.2 billion might be an overestimate, but 37.9 million (the damage before), is too low an estimate, IMO. Overall damage was probably near a billion dollars or so, but maybe we need to find something else that can verify total damage caused. The source seems reliable, but I'd like to see one that says "total damage", and one more recent than the last one. Rye998 (talk) 18:06, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

The original source is AON Benfield, definitely a reliable source in my opinion. I see no reason why we shouldn't use their total. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 18:17, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Of course it's reliable, and but it says that Maneul did 4.2 billion in economic loss. Does that count as total damage? That's my concern. Regarding 39.7 mil, if that's for its second landfall only. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 21:16, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hurricane Manuel/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 12george1 (talk · contribs) 02:19, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello User:Yellow Evan, I am going to be reviewing this article tonight. You expressed urgency for it to be reviewed, as this effects a GT. So anyway, the following are issues I have with passing this article and listing it as a Good Article.--12george1 (talk) 02:19, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Wow, just this! Thanks for the review. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• "Within favorable conditions aloft, the storm intensified into a tropical storm" - I think it should be just "With favorable conditions", because it wasn't inside the favorable conditions. Not like "a tropical wave within the ITCZ".
  • Yea, it was actually. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• "The following day, Manuel curved westward and strengthened to a point just shy of hurricane intensity before making its first landfall at that intensity." - Might want to throw a date in here somewhere, because (1. we are talking about two days here and (2. you are also assuming the reading knows what date "The following day" is referring to.
  • Noted. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• "additional impacts from Atlantic Hurricane Ingrid. After its" - I think you should wikilink Atlantic hurricane here, unless you want to practice basinism :P
  • I practice EPACism. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• "There, 20,000 persons were evacuated to shelter." - I think you need to add an "a" between "to" and "shelter".
• Wow, I am completely satisfied with the MH, Preps, Impact, and Aftermath!

  • D :D :DD No kidding. 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

• On reference #1, change "Pasch, Richard J; Zelinsky, David A" to "Richard J. Pasch; David A. Zelinsky. Also, why isn't the National Hurricane Center on there?
  • Did both. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• Looking down further at reference #9 and #10, it looks like Richard Pasch and David Zelinsky lost their middle initial.
  • You can blame Hink, he wrote the MH when he was active. Think of this positively, it set him up to do other TC articles. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• On reference #11, John Cangialosi's middle initial is "P."
  • Noted. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• On references #35, #38, #46, #51, #52, #54, #65, #96, #98, and #106, you have the publisher as "Relief Web". It should be "ReliefWeb" - one word.
  • Fixed. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• Reference #92 is a deadlink. Replace the url with this one and archive it.
  •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• On reference #101, the title should start with a capital letter
  •  Done. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
• Good job, YE! I am now going to pass this article and list it as a GA. Btw, good luck in round 4 of the WikiCup. Congratulations,--12george1 (talk) 02:50, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Post GA todo

• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4 (last two are emergency declarations)
• I should probs add in watches and warnings. Surprised that never came up in the GA review. Ill see if I can pass the 60kb banner. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 16:48, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

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