Talk:Hungarian Air Force

Arbus 319

The Hungarian army has airbus 319! Do not delete.... it but put it in. 2 pieces

https://dailynewshungary.com/hungarian-armed-forces-plan-buy-cargo-aircraft-replace-ageing-26-fleet/

https://dailynewshungary.com/hungarian-defence-force-buys-two-a319-aircraft/

Change to English

I've replaced the Hungarian section headings for English ones, as per various guidelines. Retaining the "Szentgyörgyi Dezső", and "Szolnok" names is reasonable, but giving the Hungarian for "Air Defense Missile Brigade" as a unit name is needlessly obscure. Moonraker12 (talk) 17:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Equipment

I'm pretty sure that the Hungarian Air Force doesn't have any L-159. The HuAF L-39s are also not upgraded. So, unless there is a source which says the HuAF has L-159 change it to L-39. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BoKriF (talk • contribs) 19:24, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

At my knowledge all L-39 has been retired, and no L-159 was brought, but L-159 flight time was purchased from the Czech Republic... Placi1982 (talk) 19:25, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Full protection

I don't know what's going on in this article, but this past week has been back and forth, numerous small changes, and no one is explaining why. If you're having a dispute, you need to discuss the matter here on the article talk page. The best way, of course, is to actually [{WP:V|verify]] the information with reliable sources. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:47, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 December 2012.

I wish to edit the section containing the information about the Mi 24 Hind attack helicopters. It is incorrect that there are only 2 in service, as I have many sources that says there are upwards of 20.

71.103.231.98 (talk) 20:12, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Then you will need to provide reliable sources to support that claim. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:14, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I have found reliable sources, how do I cite them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 06:28, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Mil Mi 24 Hinds

Does any one know how many Hind attack helicopters the Hungaran air force has? Someone kept on changing the quantity to only two. I have seen pictures that are less than a year old showing about five of these helicopters at the same time. I have also seen videos that are recently new that show about ten to fifteen Hinds. Yet this article shows that there are only two in service. I am confused. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 20:30, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 December 2012, a

Please, allow me to edit the helicopter section, some info is incorrect as I have many sources that indicate there are more helicopters in service. Specifically, I am referring to the Mi 24 Hind helicopters as there are many Formal sources that say there are 15 to twenty, compared to the 2 listed here.

71.103.231.98 (talk) 05:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Not done: Hi there. Sorry, but your request isn't clear enough for me to edit the article for you. Could you include the exact text you wish to appear in the article? Post that text here and wait for a day or two for other editors to comment, and if there is a consensus for the text to go into the article then please reactivate the {{edit protected}} template. (Please note that your text must also follow Wikipedia's content policies of verifiability, no original research, and neutral point of view.) If you have any questions about this, please ask me on my talk page. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 08:33, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 December 2012, b

71.103.231.98 (talk) 06:01, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

The official table of equipment for helicopters state that there are 17 mi 8s, 5 Mi17s and 12 Mi 24 Hinds. The Hungarian Wikipedia has Similar info — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 00:10, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Provide the original source. Another wiki page is not reliable source since it can be easily changed rightly and wrongly. -Fnlayson (talk) 05:11, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Helis database

Is the helis database user-generated? Is an interpretation needed in order to get a list of "active" aircraft from their page? bobrayner (talk) 13:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

17 Mi-24 helicopters are not "stored" nor "preserved" on the list. I think this source is better than nothing. Fakirbakir (talk) 15:24, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

So it's a process of elimination? Helis lists lots of helicopters, subtract any that the Helis says are "stored" or "preserved" &c., and we count the remainder on the Helis page and say that's the number in active service..? bobrayner (talk) 16:43, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This source says something very different. bobrayner (talk) 16:54, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

We would need reliable sources. Your source says different numbers about Mi-8 and Mi-17. I agree Helios is also imprecise. According to Hungarian wiki the Air Force has 12 active Mi-24s (+10 inactive), 8 Mi-8s (active), 7 Mi-17s (active). [1] Fakirbakir (talk) 18:12, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Sources disagree, so we can't be sure what the number is. If we can't be sure what the number is, then we shouldn't give a number to readers. bobrayner (talk) 18:46, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually the anonymus user was right. According to the fan page of the Szolnok Helicopter Base, Hungary [2] only 2 Mi-24s are active ([3], there are more than 10 inactive Mi-24s because their calendar life has expired). There are also 7 active Mi-17s [4] and 4 active Mi-8s (2 in the list [5] and another two is the "new" Finnish donations in the news section (9. 2011) [6]). Fakirbakir (talk) 19:28, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

People are still changing numbers back and forth. If we can't be confident of a number, it shouldn't be in the article. bobrayner (talk) 10:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Remember Hungary had 40 Mi 24s in the 90s. There has to be more than 2 active. Are the ones in reserve flyable? Are ther plans to renovate these helicopters or buy new ones?

Look up " eu country profiles- Defence supplires directory" on google go to the countries and select Hungary. The section on the Hungarian air force says that Hungary operates 15 Mi 24 Hinds. I trust this source it is supposed to be one of the most accurate sources in the UK for defence info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 00:12, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean by "has to be"?

It seems that the "Defence suppliers directory" page was last updated in 2010. Who said it is one of the most accurate sources for defence info? It seems to be run out a small office in Shrewsbury; there's a psychotherapist, a temp agency, and a graphic designer at the same address. Hardly Janes.

In the meantime, if sources disagree then we cannot be sure of the numbers, so they should not be in the article. bobrayner (talk) 12:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

If people continue changing numbers around without sources or discussion, the next step is protecting the article. bobrayner (talk) 09:43, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

The Helis database is, according to here " a collaborative project...where anyone can add or edit an entry". As such it does not meet the requirements of WP:RS.Nigel Ish (talk) 11:24, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

59. Tactical Wing

This section is inconsistent, I have therefore changed WP:MILHIST Cat B checklist item 2 to no. The wing is described as both the 59. Tactical Wing and the 59. Tactical Fighter Wing. The text also states the wing has one or two fighter squadrons. These need to be made consistent for this item to be answered yes. --Lineagegeek (talk) 02:03, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Huey helicopters

I heard that the Hungarian air force will recieve Huey helicopters? Is this true if so how many will they receive? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 00:00, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

No, it is not true. The negotiations were unsuccessful. However I did read that the AgustaWestland has also made a serious offer recently. Fakirbakir (talk) 12:41, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

AgustaWestland

When and how many AgustaWestland Aw139s are going to be delivered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 06:26, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Order of battle

Accordind to htka.hu/ Hungary currently has 17 mi 17s and five mi 8 helicopters. They also have 12 mi 24s, however only two are ready offhand. The Hungarian wiki also claims this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 01:29, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

A post on htka.hu is better than nothing, but it's still a blog, isn't it? bobrayner (talk) 10:25, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Trainers

Is the Hungarian air force still using L 39 albatrosses? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 02:17, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Protection

I think this article needs protection, there have been numerous small changes, and protection would be the best thing to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 02:18, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Mi 24 Hind

Someone edited the aircraft section of the page, taking the Hind out of the inventory, personally I think this is wrong. I reverted the edit because it was unsourced. Frankly, I think this is untrue, isn't it, please correct me if I'm wrong. I keep up with the news about the HUNAF, and I think if people keep changing around numbers, this article needs protection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.103.231.98 (talk) 01:23, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

• Flight International's World Air Force directory (published 11–17 December 2012, and apparently also available online somewhere on the Flightglobal website) list 5 Mi-24/Mi-25/Mi-35s in active service (together with 13 Mi-8/Mi-17s). As this is a proper WP:RS, would anyone object if the article is changed to reflect this source?Nigel Ish (talk) 10:52, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

There is no active Mi-24 currently. The calendar lives of the last two expired on December 31, 2012. Fakirbakir (talk) 11:07, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source that says this? Otherwise the article must go with what we can source.Nigel Ish (talk) 11:13, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately my source is just a blog.[7] However the blogger is a well known expert in connection with Hungarian Air Force. He mentioned it when he wrote about the AW-139.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:22, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Without better sources (and lhsn.hu definitely doesn't count - it is clearly an enthusiast site, we cannot say that the Mi-24 has been retired or run out of airframe life. We can say that in December 2012, 5 were in active service, referencing Flight International, and if news does surface in reliable sources (which may include reliable Hungarian language sources such as newspapers - which I would expect to report a major type being retired), report it.Nigel Ish (talk) 14:25, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

In addition, from my reading of the blog article, (at least according to Google's translation) it suggests that operation will (or may) continue using spare parts recovered from the existing reserves.Nigel Ish (talk) 14:35, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Dubious numbers again

How many helicopters? What does the source say? I don't have a copy of the IISS doc to hand, alas. bobrayner (talk) 14:13, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Dont have the ref but Flight's World Air Forces 2013 says they have 13 Mi-8/17s, scramble [8] list these as active:

• Mi-17 = 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707 which is total of 7
• Mi-8PS = 10446 which is one
• Mi-8T = 3307, 3309, 6200, 6206, 6207, 6215, 6220, 6223 which is total 8

As is usual with these sites they all differ somewhat. MilborneOne (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. bobrayner (talk) 21:12, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Mi - 24

According to the defense minister ([9]) the HU Govt is gonna put about six Mi-24 helicopters into service (until 2023/2024). The number (six) is just an estimation by experts. Fakirbakir (talk) 07:36, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

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A319

I have just read that Hungary bought two A319s for military purposes. Fakirbakir (talk) 14:03, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I have added them to the table in the article, note you have to provide a reliable source or citation for adding any information, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 14:54, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Zlin Z-242 in HuAF

Why Zlin Z242 trainers are removed from page time-to-time as all the sources (incl. official homepage of Hungarian Ministry of Defence - www.honvedelem.hu) clearly shows that from 24th March 2017 the HuAF has 2 pcs of Zlin 242L in service and already ordered 2 Zlin 143? The 2 Zlin in service have registration number 21 and 22. Sources: [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.181.71 (talk) 03:35, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

In the future please cite the content you are adding with a reliable source. If a source is not provided it can and will be removed per WP:PROVEIT - Thank you FOX 52 (talk) 04:32, 3 January 2018 (UTC)a

According to scramble.nl database, HuAF has 2 Zlin 143s (serial 25,26) and 6 Zlin 242s (serial 21,22,23,24,27,28). Also mentioned here. Ckfasdf (talk) 15:46, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Edit made on 04:51, 20 April 2022‎ - Removing pictures from the table

I am not entirely sure why the pictures can't be placed into the table. Every other list of military equipment have pictures in them, and they are fine, but this one for some reason was not. Can you help me to understand this rule? The wikipedia information page provided to the deletion do not include any information about this, only the fact that we should not use pictures INSTEAD of tables.

Thanks --Korvidus (talk) 09:02, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Actually, MOS:IMAGES do not prohibit the usage image within tables and back then (before 2016?) aircraft inventory table of air force pages also have image column. However, if I remember correctly, there was consensus to not to include picture into aircraft inventory table (I couldn't find the discussion though). Personally, I'd prefer not to include image into the table per WP:NOTGALLERY, since most of the time the image included into the table do not belong to that article. For example, you put image of C-390 in your edit, however aircraft in that image do not belong to Hungarian Air Force, but Brazilian Air Force. Thank you Ckfasdf (talk) 04:26, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

I see. Thank you for clarifying the issue! Korvidus (talk) 10:35, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

L-39NG purchase

I did find a tweet from Aero, stating that the contract was indeed signed. Still no "official" on the website, but this does prove that the contract is finalized. https://twitter.com/AERO_Vodochody/status/1517125310784880641 --Korvidus (talk) 13:50, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Also on their facebook: https://www.facebook.com/aerovodochody/photos/a.264619793642798/4705637059541027 Korvidus (talk) 13:52, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Social media sites are not a not considered reliable sourcing- FOX 52 ^talk! 14:37, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Per WP:TWITTER-EL and WP:FACEBOOK, Tweet or Facebook post from official AERO Twitter/Facebook account can be use as reliable source. I guess there is no reason to not list L-39NG anymore, since AERO confirmed that the contract is signed. Ckfasdf (talk) 15:23, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

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