Talk:Hong Kong mahjong scoring rules

In the article, it says that the "Nine gates" is 450 times more rare than the "13 wonders". What kind of hand is the "nine gates" then? --70.111.218.254 22:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

A Nine Gates hand is one where a player has three 1s, a 2-8, and three 9s all in the same suit. The 14th tile may be any tile from the same suit. It is called nine gates because there are 9 tiles that the player can win with. In some games it is required that the hand be totally concealed (i.e. the three 1s and 9s must be drawn from the wall and not taken from a discard). Bungeh 13:10, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it possible to add Cantonese transliteration(Yale/Jyutping) for some of the Chinese words in this article in addition to the current Mandarin pinyin?

I added this in a few places. Cryptor3 (talk) 23:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Whats 9 Gates in Chinese?

It would be also nice to have a visual reference to the Nine Gates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knightshield (talk • contribs) 05:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

other scores

I've seen it played with points given for a hand containing no numbers excepts ones and nines,

I have also seen it played with extra points given when there's three sets in a hand of the same number in each of the 3 different suits.

I don't remember how many points each was worth. Maybe just one. I also don't remember what they were called.

There's also another special hand that contains only doubles called "gau jeung" that scored high.

These hands were scored like this in Tsuen Wan, I'm pretty sure it's Hong Kong style, but usually not worth going for because the points don't justify the difficulty.

questions

is this hong kong old style or new style?

are the flower tiles used at all? I bought a set in chinatown but it didnt have the flowers!--Sonjaaa 05:57, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The flowers are expected to be used in traditional games, yes. But they only affect scoring, not the actual gameplay. So if you're not that serious about mahjong (i.e. gambling), it is ok not to have them. Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

How is scoring for a hand affected by having a kong instead of a pung? —Preceding unsigned comment added by AliasMarlowe (talk • contribs) 19:36, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

It isn't, unless you win by a kong. In that case you get an extra point for the hand. Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The Nine Gates

十三么 (8 fān + any tile in the same set) - Known in English as the thirteen terminal hand or the thirteen wonders, this occurs in 13-tile variants when the winning hand consists of one of each one, nine, wind, and dragon, and a 14th tile that matches any of the other 13. Because the hand is so greatly divergent from the standard hand, this hand is generally considered the highest scoring hand of any kind (although it is not the hand that is least likely to occur - the nine gates is said to be some 450 times more rare), barring criteria that are probabilistic in nature. Thus, in scoring systems where a maximum point value is imposed, this is often an automatic maximum-point hand.

What are the nine gates? It does not seem to be specified on this page. --jftsang 21:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Apologies, I found it. :-) --jftsang 21:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

pinyin

Shouldn't this be in jyutping considering this is a pretty Cantonese-exclusive scoring system (Hong Kong Mahjong scoring rules). I mean, if these were Chinese scoring rules, I can see why we would have pinyin (and maybe jyutping), but these rules are from Hong Kong. As much as pinyin is widespread, I think we should keep Cantonese-originating things in jyutping. Pandacomics (talk) 10:49, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but I also question whether the amount of translation in the article is necessary at all; this is ultimately an article for English readers. Some key phrases like zimo might be of interest, but I don't think anyone really plans to use the Chinese pronunciation of Thirteen Wonders. Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:25, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd really like to add it in addition. I'm an English reader with Cantonese heritage, so the Cantonese pronunciations are of interest to me. So I'll add it and see how it looks (for the common phrases) Cryptor3 (talk) 15:39, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Seven Pairs

To my knowledge, this is a widely recognized "special" hand. Does anyone object to its inclusion? Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:23, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I do because it is not standard in Hong Kong. Seven pairs exists in Japanese MJ and Eight pairs (Likku Likku) exists in Taiwanese MJ. Hong Kong MJ does not have Seven pairs. It should be removed. DietEvil (talk) 08:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Special hand means special hand. Not all people play special hands. Leave it in as some people do. Some people play 7 pairs, some don't. Most computer programs don't even have 13 yiu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.217.168.118 (talk) 05:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The Seven pair hand, or "flying butterflies" hand as it's called in cantonese is considered a special hand and I use it all the time. It's also used by many online mahjong websites as well as a few mahjong programs (4 winds and 9 dragons). DietEvil is right in that it isn't standard, but many of my relatives that play a lot are aware of it and my mom was the one told me about it, giving the impression that at least it isn't unheard of. AzNeo (talk) 09:52, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Is this standard scoring?

I've been looking everywhere for correct fan scores for each hand, but so many different places have different fan for certain hands hands 7 fan and lower seem pretty standard everywhere but i've seen for example: 小三元 range from 3 to 6 大三元 13 小四喜 range from 6 to 13 大四喜 13 example sources: http://hk.geocities.com/terryrashes/mj_lesson_3.htm http://www.igame.com.tw/help/help_mhk_main.htm i'm not trying challenge the scoring presented on the page, i'm just wondering why there are so many different fan values and if there's a standard one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.12.59 (talk) 13:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC) ==== I spent some time in China and my experience there was that there isn't really any such thing as standard rules. I play poker and other gambling games and I really wanted to play this game too but wherever I went in china the rules were different, often vastly different, from city to city and no one knew the so-called official Chinese rules. My guess would be that if you go to HK or someplace to play HK style Mah Jong just be prepared to learn the local rules of the place you are and don't get hung up on whether it's 'standard' or not.

Style

Is it old style or new style? Because that affects both scoring and the inclusion of Seven Pairs as a special hand. 203.24.97.254 (talk) 05:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Winning Condition

"A hand is considered a winning hand when it has 4 melds and a pair"

This seems simply not true. A hand can win with few or no melds, but the amount of melds seems to have absolutely no bearing on a win.

Like if I had a hand of sets, let's say 2 chow, 2 pung, and 1 random tile, then someone discards a tile that matches mine, and a claim it for a pair, that's still a "winning hand", but only has 1 meld. Like-wise any combination of those sets would be valid, melded or otherwise.

This article is the only resource I can find that says sets must be melded to win. To the point where it's difficult to research, as there isn't a concept of "must be melded to win" anywhere.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, or update that line. I'm quite new to Mahjong, but I've done a lot of research, and contacted my HK friends. We just don't understand the first line of this article at all.

The line should probably read "A hand is considered a winning hand when it has 4 sets and a pair".

2607:F2C0:E28E:63:41B1:E6F:E0C0:EFD3 (talk) 16:27, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Fan / Fān / Faan

This article uses all three spellings, and uses them inconsistently. Shouldn't it have an explanation in the beginning of the three words, and then use one consistently throughout? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gary D Robson (talk • contribs) 19:02, 18 October 2023 (UTC)