Talk:Hitler's Stalingrad speech

Bot Removal Notice

I removed the following bot notice since the section is a transcript of the speech which is quoted [1]. I actually couldn't access the website the bot mentioned, as a spyware-virus warning came up. -OberRanks (talk) 17:51, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi OberRanks, this may be a tricky one. The original speech is PD, since the author died in 1945. The tricky part comes from this not being the original speech, but a translation, which then generates its own copyright. Can you ID the source of the translation? A US Government translation would make all problems vaporise of course. Crow^Caw 21:55, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Its been updated and added, shouldn't be any worry now. Fascinating speech, I'm glad it could be added to the Wiki. -OberRanks (talk) 15:57, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi, do you happen to have a link or a NARA record number or something for this? Normally a PD source gets its own little template so as to avoid appearances of plagiarism, though I suspect in context that's unlikely here, but still we have 2 templates for NARA sources: Template:NARA and Template:NARA catalog record.

My original notes from college indicate the translation was created on April 17th 1997 by the National Archives staff at College Park. Setting the way back machine, I remember the room where all those recordings were in had these large white filing cabinets lining three corners. They all had reel and index numbers; I've heard in the last several years the entire division has been overhauled, but I would imagine a person could write and get the original index information. -OberRanks (talk) 23:20, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Taking my copyright hat off, I also found while searching NARA for the above, that this speech seems to be popularly known as the "Speech on the 19th Anniversary of the Beer Hall Putsch". The original being so much larger than what is quoted here, I think that Wikisource might also like a copy of the full thing, though they will definitely want the full like to the source I expect. Thanks for your work! Crow^Caw 23:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is part of a much larger speech. Maybe create a separate article for the whole thing and then combine. This segment right here is most often cited in historical works since it was apparently broadcast to the troops in Stalingrad and, as they sat huddled in the cold, they listened to how the battle was already over - according to Hitler. -OberRanks (talk) 23:20, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the copyright question, OberRanks, we need verification that material is public domain. :) We can't reproduce it without being sure of that.

In this case, the material was first published on the internet at ibiblio in September of 1997 ([2]). They do not attribute it to the NARA, but to the Foreign Broadcast Information Service. This would still make it public domain, fortunately, but, if ibiblio is correct, makes the attribution in our article incorrect. If you do not have a reliable source that confirms the NARA translated this in 1997, we need to cite it and the disagreement from ibiblio. If you don't have a reliable source to confirm this, we need to correct the attribution.

I notice that ibiblio disagrees on the date you have in the article. They think that it occurred on November 8th, not November 9th. Can I ask where you got the 9th? That 8th date is reflected in the several sources I've looked at - this unreliable one, and these books: Jukes, Geoffrey (January 1985). Hitler's Stalingrad Decisions. University of California Press. p. 97. ISBN 978-0-520-05130-0., Walsh, Stephen (2000). Stalingrad: The Infernal Cauldron, 1942-1943. St. Martin's Press. p. 115. ISBN 978-0-312-26943-2.. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

We can certainly try to get a hold of the Archives or simply switch out to the cite for the other verifiedsource you found. I imagine more than one translation was made of the speech. I recall that period of time in the late 1990s there was a renewed interest in the Battle of Stalingrad for some reason, several movies about it, etc. I would imagine that was partly why people starting taking an interest in this speech. -OberRanks (talk) 15:51, 5 November 2014 (UTC)