Talk:History of Baku

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Blakenyguen.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

GA nomination

I have reviewed your article, and I will be ready to pass it once the following issues are tended to:

• Fair use rationales on the images Image:71_014tiny.jpg and Image:40634281_azerbaijan_238.jpg. Or otherwise they need to be removed.
• A source for Image:HZTBak.jpg (or replace it with a sourced image).
• The introduction needs to mention Soviet Union taking control. (I don't mean repeating what is already written below, but this is a major point and the lead should briefly mention this).

--Konstable 02:55, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Other suggestions for the future (but the Good Article criteria would be met without these):

• Clean up your date wikilinks. They are often not consistent, too frequent, and sometimes link specific dates rather than years. This just makes it seem over-loaded with links.
• Maybe work on some of the red links, turn them into stubs.
• I have a feeling that some bits may lack context for people who don't know anything about the Soviet Union (I do very well though), for instance you mentioned Nikita Khrushchev, but most people probably would not remember who he is.
• Have more inline-citations. Some parts are cited well, but others are lacking.

--Konstable 02:55, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I've now fulfiled the criteria, including the Khruschev-related one. Thanks. --Brand спойт 15:21, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I would just like to second the observation that there seem to be many redlinks for an article of this size and quality. -Fsotrain09 15:24, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I thought about this, they will be filled soon. --Brand спойт 15:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I have promoted the article to WP:GA, nice work!--Konstable 02:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Delisting from GA

I'm a little surprised that this article has been listed as a good article. While much of it is very good, the English is so poor I found it close to unreadable in parts, and certainly found the meaning of some sentences obscured. It needs a very thorough copyedit. Particular problems are:

• Tenses are frequently wrong (present, past and pluperfect are used in a confusing and inconsistent way)
• Punctuation is frequently wrong (commas in the wrong place or missing, poor sentence structure)
• Missing or incorrect articles ("a" and "the")

Aside from that copyedit, the following points still need to be addressed:

• Linking of individual years and dates is generally a bad thing. Link, for instance, 1 December, 2005 but not "In 2005, on the 1 December".
• The "topography" section is interesting but I think you mean "toponymy". Without some explanation (i.e. are these Russian or Soviet historical figures being replaced in the toponymy by Azerbaijani heroes? What is the significance of these individual names - who are they?) it is useless to the general reader, and belongs more in the "Baku" article than under "History of Baku".
• The references are not well-cited at present. Have a look at WP:CITE. Translations of titles ought to be included, as should information about author and publisher (even for websites), and the languages the sites are written in. It seems odd to have a very nice list of comprehensive-looking books at the bottom of the article, but not to be relying on any of them as a source.

For the moment I'm rescinding the good article status of this article. All of my objections are basically technically problems (e.g. get a good copy-editor involved, fix the formatting) rather than content quality objections, though it would be nice to see more English language references used to aid verifiability. Once the problems are patched up, it ought pass through the WP:GAN system pretty quickly. TheGrappler 22:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

It is actually quite poorly written - no offence - but english grammar is lacking here, sometimes i could not understand the meaning at all. Anyone willing to help is welcome. abdulnr 15:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the Name

I find it interesting how there was no reference regarding where the name baku came from. i have cleared that up and created the section. i have included all points of view, however, it is widely agreed that the name is Persian.Iranian Patriot 21:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Copy edit party complete

I have copy edited down to and including the Middle Ages section.

I haven't done any major reorganisation and some of the Appearance section would probably be better in the History sections.

I have tried not to change the sense of any of the content.

However, there are a couple of sentences in Appearance that I could not follow:

The town planning is said to be much admired, but immediately after the city is described as dusty and difficult to find your way around.

The first part of the sentence about street lights I couldn't understand - is it saying that lamps were just fixed to the walls, the rest being on pig iron stands?

Hope this helps.

Name Baku

Debates are still going on in connection with the etymology of the word Baku, as well as the exact age of the city. For instance, the English archeologist Sir William Flinders Petrie suggests that the words Bakhay denoting the mountain of Bakhou of the rising Sun written in the Egyptian Book of the Dead in the 2nd millenium BC refer to Baku. Some scholars relate Baku with the names Gaytara, Albana, Baruka mentioned in the ancient sources. In the sources dating back to the V-VIII centuries AD it is referred to as Bagavan, Ateshi Baguvan. In the Arabian sources the words Baku, Bakukh, Bakuya, Bakuye are first encountered beginning from the IX century. Later in the European sources the name of the city is encountered as Baga, Baki, Bakkhi”, and in the Russian sources as “Baka”. Beginning from the XVIII century Baku is mentioned in the Persian sources as Bardkube. This word consists of two Persian words: bard meaning wind and kube - to blow, that is (the city) where the wind blows. Apparently the city was called so by some authors because of the strong winds blowing in Baku. At present in the Azerbaijani language the name of the city is used as Baki.[1]

You just copy pasted all of this from the source, this is not what Wiki is about. Secondly, European sources do not matter, as they have no affect on the origin of the name of Baku (because certainly Europeans did not coin the name). Secondly, the present name of the city in Azerbaijani is insignificant, as it is stated in the introductory paragraph of Baku.

There is no one single opinion related to the etymology of the word Baku, and different assumptions are used in different sources. Prof. Sara Ashurbayli, the leading specialist in this sphere thinks that the word dates back to Zoroastrianism and is derived from the word baga which means the Sun, the God in a number of ancient languages.[2] The Turkish Islamic Encyclopedia presents the origin of the word Baku as being derived from the words Bey-Kyoy which mean the main city in Turkish.[3] According to the version of the scientist-specialist in the Caucasian studies K.P.Patkanov, the name Baku originates from the Lak word bak meaning a hill as Baku is situated on the hills. Ali Huseinzada, the historian also confirms that the word Baki is encountered in the popular Turkish dictionary of the XI century compiled by Mahmud Kashgari in the meaning of a hill.[4]

The Turkish theory is pure historical revisionism, as the city was first mentioned in 885!

I am going to shorten this, taking out the irrelevant and historical revisionist infor, as I have talked about above.Khosrow II 17:04, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• The information is sourced, but may be improved by copy-editing. Please, do not delete anything. If you do not agree with the information given, you can try to discuss it here or add other sourced information. By removing paragraphs of cited information and adding couple of words reflecting your pov while keeping the references at the same place is misleading people. This is nothing but content forking. Do not accuse people who do not accept your pov as revisionists or nationalists, be civil at first! E104421 18:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Please do not revert the last few edits (Nov 23 & 24, 2006). Those last few edits have nothing to do with removing information. They are only about formatting corrections, such as fixing links and adding spaces in between sentences in order to break up overly-long paragraphs. If there was an edit further back that deleted sourced information, simply re-add the deleted content without destroying the other productive edits. Spylab 19:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Neither of the sources were reliable nor authoritative, so the information is liable to change. I already told you why I took out the Turkish theory (its historical revisionism). Other than that, as far as I remember, I moved things around to put things related to each other closer.Khosrow II 06:44, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

What you're doing is historical revisionism. The information provided is well-sourced. If you do not agree, prove yours here. E104421 16:49, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Dates don't follow

The dates in that section where I put the tag don't make sense, a castle was built to defend the city during it's occupation or what? (Bjorn Tipling 06:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC))

I'm only copy editing

I don't actually know anything about Baku. I do know unsourced claims when I see them. This article needs a lot more work. (Bjorn Tipling 06:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC))

Oil industry and 1st paraffin factory

The first impression I got when I read this article was that this was the first city to manufacture candle wax. Here is a link that may shed some light on the paraffin factory Development of oil and gas industry.

“ Kokarev and Kurbanin built the first factory for acquiring paraffin and kerosene near Surakhani (near the Ancient Fire Worshipper's Temple). ”

There are other firsts discussed at this site, many of which are described as occurring at Baku.

Xpanzion 05:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

This article needs a lot of work

This article needs a lot of work. It needs to cite its sourced and its poorly written. Who wants to help fix it with me?Azerbaijani 16:50, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

re-write process

I am currently re-writing this article, but section by section, because I have almost very little time. I have already updated some sections, and i am preparing others also, so this article still is a draft.please be patient. Ateshi - Baghavan 22:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

It's looking good. :) (Bjorn Tipling 23:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC))

Citations needed

Almost 90% of this article is not sourced...if sources cannot be found within a couple weeks we should probably start deleting some of these claims and bring the article back to "good article" status. Length is not what is always important, its verifiability.Azerbaijani 23:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Azerbaijani, why are you removing one unsourced information with another? Your quotes to Baku being incorporated into Persian empire in 6 BCE, and other parts citing "Iranian" town, etc. are simply unsourced POV to be removed immediately. And when you use Iranica as reference, please, indicate the precise article not the link to the whole encyclopedia. Discuss your changes and don't think that the modification with POV additions can just pass by unnoticed. Atabek 00:04, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

What POV changes did I make? Do not blindly revert. Are you denying that Baku became a part of the Achaemenid Iranian Empire (Persian Empire)? Are you kidding me? The whole Caucasus was under the rule of the Achaemenids... Furthermore, the Iranica source is the Baku article, I can fix that (the link wouldnt show, dont know why). And speaking of unsourced POV THIS WHOLE ARTICLE CONSISTS OF USNOURCED POV. Also, you changed some peculiar things...Why did you put in the article that the Safavid dynasty collapsed after Nadir Shah? Nadir Shah came after the Safavids had already disintegrated for the most part.Azerbaijani 03:19, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Here is exactly what Iranica says:

"Baku, like the entire principality of ˆerva@n, was annexed to Iran by the Safavids in several stages during the 10th/16th century, so that the long reign of the ˆerva@nÞa@hs, along with the region's independence, came to an end. Persian rule was briefly replaced by the Ottoman one (1578-1607), and then continued until the middle of the 12th/18th century when a weakening of central control made possible, in the Caucasian provinces, the formation of several smaller khanates, among them that of Baku."

Source: Baku article in Encyclopaedia Iranica.Azerbaijani 03:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

restored sourced section back, do not remove it any more, it is sourced. Ateshi - Baghavan 01:37, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

The sources are hardly academic or scholarly and it clearly contradicts Iranica. Besides, Baku was mentioned centuries before the arrival of the Turks.Azerbaijani 01:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

you can't call sources hardly academic if they contradict iranica, as iranica is not the only, but one of the academic sources and it has also some biases, as every academic source has. and coming to the claim that baku was mentioned before tukic tribes arrived in caucausus, it is simple untrue, because i can provide at least three russian sources which mention turkic tribes in baku area, in the same time of possibly centuries of Baku's foundation. According to Artomonov istoriya khazar, published in leningrad in 1962, in page 53, turkic tribes first appear in caucasus in 395 AD. another scholar yeremeyev in his book etnogenez turok published in 1970 in moscow writes, Beginning from III-IV centuries, turkic tribes became permanent neighbours of people of Asia minor and caucasus and balkans and were influxing into this areas actively and Pletneva in her book xazari published in moscow in 1976 writes that in 586 turkic tribes of suvars were defeated by another turkic tribe- avars after this, suvars settled/moved to [caucasian]albania. Ateshi - Baghavan 02:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Everyone knows that Turkic tribes have invaded the Caucasus before, as well as other places before, but they never settled there, or were absorbed. The Turkic people we speak of today, and the Turkic languages we refer to today (Turks and Azeri, etc...) are not connected to them, but rather the Seljuks. Baku was not founded by them, as they never settled in the region. This very same article says that Baku was founded before centuries before the Seljuks arrived, so how could the name possibly be Turkic?

You claim contradicts everything in this article.Azerbaijani 02:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I haven't said anywhere that baku was founded by seljuqs and Baku was founded by turkic tribes, I just were answering your untrue claim that Baku was founded before turkic tribes came to Azerbaijan, and brought three sources that indicate that turkic tribes were in caucasus during the foundation of baku. so those alternative hypothesis have the right to be listed here. by the way why you were also removing hypothesis regarding lak origin of baku word? or laks were also somewhere far away when baku was founded? they are one of the oldest indigeneous people in the caucasus. you do not remove sources because of their "unacademicism" but because they contradict your worldview. Coming to your second claim, that turkic tribes never settled in the region, just look at three russian quotes i gave above. you are just pushing your pov by interpreting sources as you like. Ateshi - Baghavan 03:13, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

You knew what I meant, when I said that, I was referring to the Seljuks. Those previous Turkic tribes had no impact on the region, in fact, the most they ever did was raid the region, but other than that, they stayed out of the Caucasus (as the Caucasus was firmly under Sassanid control, and later, Arab control). Raiding and settling are two completely different things. As you may or may not know, the Huns also consisted of Turkic tribes, and they went all the way to central Europe, but that doesn't mean that Turks settled in the region or had any cultural or linguistic impact (they didnt). Turkic tribes did not settle in the region until after the Seljuk invasions. The Turkic tribes your sources mention did indeed invade. In fact, many times they did so in coordination with the Byzantine Empire, so that the Byzantines could pressure the Sassanids on two fronts. This is why the Sassanids built that fortifications they did in the Northern Caucasus, to keep the Turkic tribes out, and they were successful. There is no evidence of any Turkic settlement in the area until the Seljuks, and certainly not of any major cultural or linguistic impace.

As I said, the very same source you tried to cite doesnt even support your claim (see below). Why do you still insist that there is a Turkic etymology to Baku when not even the source you cite says that? This is getting beyond ridiculous. I find it amusing how you avoided addressing my points below. Really Elsanaturk, how do you expect people to take you seriously when you attempt to distort sources this way?Azerbaijani 04:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Wait a second, Elsanaturk, what are you trying to pull? The source you cited doesnt even say that it is derived from the Turkic word for hill:

According to the version of the scientist-specialist in the Caucasian studies K.P.Patkanov, the name “Baku” originates from the Lak word “bak” meaning “a hill” as Baku is situated on the hills. Ali Huseinzada, the historian also confirms that the word “Baki” is encountered in the popular Turkish dictionary of the XI century compiled by Mahmud Kashgari in the meaning of “a hill”.

Whats going on? No where does it say that Huseinzada says that the term Baku comes from the Turkic word for hill, it says that the word Baki is encountered in the popular Turkish dictionary of the 11th century.

Not only is your claim ludicrous, but your source doesnt even say it!Azerbaijani 03:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Just removed the sentence about Italian merchant ships trading at Baku. How were these merchant ships going from the Black Sea to the Caspian? On top of the Caucasus mountains? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FarzanaGButt (talk • contribs) 19:26, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:73 059 64737.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

1990 events

It is absurd that this article does not mention the violent events of January 1990, both the anti-Armenian atrocities that drove out the Armenian population of the city (Jan. 13-15) and the brutal Soviet tank attack in the center of the city on Jan. 20 that killed perhaps 200 and wounded hundreds more. These are some of the most dramatic and significant events in the city's history, and omitting them looks like suppression. I'm not about to try adding them myself, because the subject is extremely sensitive and I have no desire to get into nasty edit wars, but someone should take the bull by the horns. It's like having a history of Paris with no mention of 1789. Languagehat (talk) 13:49, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing at all about the 1905 events either. Meowy 18:59, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Timeline of Baku

What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 14:59, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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This article is white washed

Where is the Battle of Baku? The players, history of forces, massacres, etc, and the aftermath... this article, unless l am missing it or messed up, seems to exist in a vacuum- and is slanted.

 And l am looking for what Shrub’s maternal great grandpa George Walker who oversaw the development of the oil field post WW1.  I didn’t expect to find more on him, l am working on oil economy Iran / Iraq and this is a side job Patfromlogan (talk) 01:31, 13 March 2020 (UTC)