Talk:Hinduism in Indonesia

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POV content

Some of the stuff here could not be considered NPOV.

In particular the sentence about many people converting based on Javanese Hinduism's glorious past.

I also removed the statement about converting several Karonese. Perhaps several (what, three people) were converted, but having lived with Karonese for quite a while, Hinduism is not a religion that is known. This was pretty weak, a bit like saying that Islam is an Eskimo religion because three Eskimos converted.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.114.226.172 (talk • contribs)

Naming

Is the name 'Agama Hindu Dharma' used just for Balinese Hinduism, or for Hinduism in Jawa, Kalimantan etc as well? The reason I ask is that I would like to write an article Hinduism in Indonesia, but if this is the same as Agama Hindu Dharma I would make it redirect here. QuartierLatin1968 21:19, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Oh, crap, just when I think I've gotten everything sorted out, it appears that there are also articles Hinduism in Java (island) and Hinduism in Sulawesi. Okay then, I think what we should do in the fullness of time is move most of the regional sections out (except for summaries) with a link to the corresponding detailed articles. We should revitalize the redirect Hinduism in Bali (or Balinese Hinduism) and keep this article for the Indonesia-wide overview. (I'm answering my own question from above, because I've done some research into the subject in the past eleven days!) How does this sound to others? QuartierLatin1968 02:15, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

agama only means religion. Just as bahasa Indonesia translates as Indonesian language, agama Hindu dharma translates as Hinduism and agama Budhi dharma translates as Buddhism. While we're at it, the article needs to mention the traditionlaist/modernist split in the Parisada Hindu Dharma Indonesia in 2001 and the role of Pancasila in the way in which Indonesian Hindus have defined themselves. It is argued, for example, that Indonesian Hinduism's alleged monotheism is an invention to satisfy the pancasila requirements imposed by the RI ministry of religion. Alan 08:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why the article name is in Indonesian. I searched for Hinduism in Indonesia and was directed here. In an English encyclopedia we should use English terms - yes, I know "agama" means religion but it is still non-English. We don't call the Muslim equivalent Agama Muslim in Indonesia. I am not (yet) saying it should be changed, rather seeking infomrmation on the logic of the title. Maybe some think this is an old issue but since I can't see it here, it may be useful for others to know too. --Merbabu 02:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Yup, I agree. Let's move to Hinduism in Indonesia. Q·L·1968 ☿ 00:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Page moved to Hinduism in Indonesia. Well, actually, I had to a cut and paste as the destination page already existed. I will however copy (not cut) this talk page contents to the new page. --Merbabu 01:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Go for it!

make more hindu in the malay archepeliego articles. --Dangerous-Boy

PLEASE DON'T SAY THAT HINDUISM IS A TRANSPORTED RELIGION

SIR/MADAM, As there is no concrete evidence that Hinduism was transported from India.Hinduism cannot be taken through sudden religious jehads..The contacts between Javans and Indians was a two way transport and Hinduism is a religion basaed on interaction.So please avoid the words and phrases which indicate Hinduism is from originally from India.

                                                                                                                         Yours truthfully,
                                                   Pon Dheepankar K,
                                                 M.A Delhi University

—Preceding unsigned comment added by PONDHEEPANKAR (talk • contribs)

Is there any discussion in the article about how Hinduism came to be in Indonesia? The article is at best limited. --Merbabu 02:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

And I'm pretty sure that Hinduism existed in India before there was civilization in Indonesia. Saimdusan Talk|Contribs 00:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The definition of "Hindu" and "Hinduism" in Kalimantan

I know that the article has already mentioned it, but wouldn't it be better if we stress that what is called "Hindu" in Indonesia doesn't always mean that it has something to do with the Dharmic religion. I mean, as i am from Kalimantan, I know for sure that the Dayak people who claimed that they are "Hindu" don't worship the Trimurti and obeying the Dharma. They only claim to be Hindu because the Government of Indonesia doesn't recognize their traditional faith. Same thing as the Torajans, Mentawais, and other tribal societies all over Indonesia. In this sense, they are not even "Hindu".

Also I want to turn on the spotligh on this one:

"In central and southern Kalimantan, a large Hindu movement has grown among the local indigenous Dayak population which lead to a mass declaration of 'Hinduism' on this island in 1980. However, this was different to the Javanese case, in that conversions followed a clear ethnic division. Indigenous Dayak were confronted with a mostly Muslim population of government-sponsored (and predominantly Javanese) migrants and officials, and deeply resentful at the dispossession of their land and its natural resources."

I'm sorry, but I think this sentence is absurd. While it's true that the government program had made little success, I don't think the Javanese transmigrants were the main cause of their so-called conversion. Outsiders tend to forget that long before the Javanese arrived, the Dayaks have already dealt with their Muslim neighbors who live in the urban and suburban areas (like the Kutais, Malays, and Banjars). Don't forget that for centuries, the Dayaks had complex relationship with local Malay rulers who give them the status of tributaries and subordinates. This is also true if we see the case of Dayaks in Malaysia, in which they also react to the Malaysian Government, not by claiming false Hinduism, but by embracing Christianity.

At least Malaysian history took notice of the role of non-Dayaks locals, not like in Indonesia where everything seems to revolve around the Javanese and ignore the rest. Even in most articles of Hinduism in Indonesia, people forget that the oldest Hindu Kingdom was Kutai of East Kalimantan and only giving glorifications for the Javanese Majapahit. Matahari Pagi 09:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Indonesian Hindus belief in one god

Namaste, this is a confusing idea within Hinduism, the reference to the Smarta tradition accomplishes the idea that worshipping god in his/her many forms is really the act of worshipping one god. The application of one god as the supreme god is also common in India(i.e Shaivism, Vaishnavism) but the Indonesian motto of belief in one god, does it force them to pray to that specific god before all others? acknowledging the Hindu truths of saguna brahman and nirguna brahman.(nirguna, divine essence with attributes and the attributeless eternal source satchitananada existence consciousness eternal bliss) where does all this come in? Do the Indonesian Hindus acknowledge Nirguna Brahman as the source(in a sense the one source) when you come to think of it that is the eternal truth in Hinduism, belief in devas leads us to nirguna brahman, bhakti(devotions). I'm just confused as to how the implication of one true god, goes with all this other stuff...i'm just saying that the idea's already there but the implication of that one true god isn't really needed in Hinduism but then again this is Indonesia not India...Domsta333 (talk) 12:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

links

Hey, not to be rude, but I would like to see some Hindu Indonesian sites in English if there are any? could anybody translate the texts for me anyways? thanks, Om shanti Dom —Preceding unsigned comment added by Domsta333 (talk • contribs) 12:47, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Islam Kharma

I doubt the veracity of this. What is "Kharma"? Do they mean the Hindu concept of "Karma"? Google shows no hits for either phrase but this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xod (talk • contribs) 17:15, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

WARNING

The following segments were removed either because like of sources, weasel words, propagation and the like. If this trend continues, then this page will be tagged with an NPOV warning:

"Islam met with a different kind of resistance at a popular and cultural level. While the majority of Javanese did become 'Muslims', following the example of their rulers, for many among them this was a change in name only. Earlier indigenous Javanese and Hindu traditions were retained by the rural population and even within the immediate sphere of the royal courts, especially in a context of ritual practice. In this sense, the victory of Islam has remained incomplete until today."

Especially the last sentence. This is no place to settle scores or advocate any religion or political stance.

"At the same time, the East Javanese branch of the government Hindu organization, PHDI, in an annual report claims the 'Hindu congregation' (Umat Hindu) of this province to have grown by 76,000 souls in this year alone."

What year? Where is the comparison with the official census? This is obviously a cut and paste job.

"However, there are problems in estimating the real number of Hindus which may be bigger. The rate of conversion accelerated dramatically during and after the collapse of former President Suharto's authoritarian regime in 1998. Despite their local minority status the total number of Hindus in Java now exceeds that of Hindus in Bali."

How so, and by how much? Where are the sources?

"Political trends aside, however, the choice between Islam and Hinduism is often a highly personal matter. Many converts reported that other members of their families have remained 'Muslims', out of conviction or in the hope that they will be free to maintain their Javanist traditions in one way or another."

Sources?

"Taking Pura Sumeru as an example, it is also important to note that major Hindu temples can bring a new prosperity to local populations. Apart from employment in the building, expansion, and repair of the temple itself, a steady stream of Balinese pilgrims to this now nationally recognized temple has led to the growth of a sizeable service industry. Ready-made offerings, accommodation, and meals are provided in an ever-lengthening row of shops and hotels along the main road leading to Pura Sumeru. At times of major ritual activity tens of thousands of visitors arrive each day. Pilgrims' often generous cash donations to the temple also find their way into the local economy."

This shouldn't talk about what CAN happen but what IS happening on the ground. The next part can be applied to any Mosque building activity or the like. How to cash donations to a local temple find their way to the local economy?

"Pondering with some envy on the secret to the economic success of their Balinese neighbors, several local informants concluded that "Hindu culture may be more conducive to the development of an international tourism industry than is Islam".

Sources if I may ask and why is it worded in such manner? I'm looking forward for answers and a discussion regarding this manner. Again, this article should state facts and should not be used as a ground for propagation and potentiality.

X5Dragon 15:00, 18 February 2009 (GMT)

The Indonesian project is littered with articles that fail to use any WP:CITE or WP:RS with any WP:V chances - thanks for removing the material SatuSuro 14:28, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The passages you've quoted were extracted from an article published in a peer-reviewed anthropology journal. I don't think they were cited initially. I am not sure if I should include them again with the proper citation.

"Great Expectations: Hindu Revival Movements in Java". The Australian Journal of Anthropology 12(3): 327-338. Special Issue :::13: Beyond Syncretism: Indigenous expressions of world religions.

The author is a professor of anthropology at Monash University - Dr. Thomas Reuter (http://arts.monash.edu.au/anthropology/staff/treuter.php).

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Infobox

Without further explanation, Nepalibhoy has restored the infobox, which was boldly removed by Rantemario a while ago. I support the removal, since an infobox suggests that Indonesians registered as Hindus are a cohorent group of people. They are not, as the article sufficiently explains. FWIW, we also don't have infoboxes in Islam in Indonesia, Catholic Church in Indonesia and Protestantism in Indonesia. –Austronesier (talk) 20:56, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

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when it became the fifth state-recognized religion

Can the writer or anybody enlighten me of the meaning of "the fifth state-recognized religion"? I thought Hinduism was accepted after Islam, Protectionism and Roman Catholic Church in Indonesia as acceptable religions, hence the fourth. I'm about completing the translation (into traditional Chinese) today. Thank you for you attention.ThomasYehYeh (talk) 01:26, 31 May 2022 (UTC)