Talk:Henry Ughtred

Categories

I am not entirely sure this article should be in Category:Cromwell family and Category:Paulet family. In the former case his relationship to the Cromwell's was that his step father was Gregory Cromwell, 1st Baron Cromwell, and so his half-siblings were Cromwells. However this does not make Henry Ughtred a member of the family. The Paulet connection is even more complicated as his wife was his first wife was the daughter of his second step-father John Paulet, 2nd Marquess of Winchester. However again this would not make Ughtred a member of the Paulet family. Dunarc (talk) 15:09, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Parentage

Gosh, just noticing this. He’s not 100% confirmed as the child of Sir Anthony and Elizabeth Seymour. The source (now taken out) does not list a Henry as a child. It doesn’t mention a sister, Margery, either. No children are listed. History of Parliament says “presumably s. of Sir Anthony Ughtred (d.1534) by Elizabeth (d. c.1562), da. of Sir John Seymour† of Wolf Hall, Wilts., sis. of Edward Seymour, Duke of Somerset.” In the article it states: “Ughtred pedigrees are confused and contradictory, but assuming that the parentage given above is correct, this Member was related to the Seymours, to Gregory Cromwell†, 1st Baron Cromwell (his mother’s second husband) and to the Paulets.” It kind of assumes he is their child and talks of “His first cousin the Earl of Hertford”. Then he marries a daughter of Elizabeth’s 3rd husband, Sir John Paulet, later 2nd Marquess of Winchester. Is it a coincidence? Do we have any sources that CONFIRM he is their son? Lady Meg (talk) 07:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC) Lady Meg (talk) 07:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

And who wrote this like he is their son? Are we copying what The History of Parliament says? A lot of random info about parents that aren’t confirmed. Lady Meg (talk) 08:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Noticed someone put in the DNB as a source that he’s a son of Sir Anthony and Elizabeth Seymour. Great! No one can read it because there is a pay wall. If HOP states “presumably”, what does the DNB state? Not sure why this wasn’t discussed before a source was put in. It should probably be discussed in the article that his parentage is not confirmed and questioned by several sources. Lady Meg (talk) 07:28, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Lady Meg,

Henry Ughtred is indeed the son of Sir Anthony Ughtred and his second wife, Elizabeth Seymour. The early sources are somewhat confused!

Sir John Seymour's memorial in Great Bedwyn church has his mother married to Sir Henry Ughtred (1477–1510), who died before she was born.

ODNB does confirm that Henry Ughtred is the son of Sir Anthony Ughtred and Elizabeth Seymour. See Thornton, Tim (2012). The Channel Islands, 1370–1640: Between England and Normandy, p. 71, fn 95.

See also Carthew, G.A. (1878). The Hundred of Launditch and Deanery of Brisley; in the County of Norfolk; Evidences and Topographical Notes from public records, Heralds' Visitations, Wills, Court Rolls, Old Charters, Parish Registers, Town books, and Other Private Sources; Digested and Arranged as Materials for Parochial, Manorial, and Family History. Vol. II. p. 524 (second paragraph): "My brother Henry Ughtred" ("Extract of Will of Henry Lord Cromwell");

MacCarthy-Morrogh, Michael (2016) [July 1983]. The Munster Plantation, 1583-1641, p. 62, fn 3"Henry Oughtred of Southampton step-father to Sir William Courtenay and uncle to Robert Strode, all Limerick undertakers. Oughtred's mother Elizabeth Seymour, sister to Queen Jane; after Sir Anthony Oughtred's death married second marquis of Winchester. Further link with family by Henry Oughtred's marriage to Elizabeth Paulet, daughter of marquis";

MacCulloch, Diarmaid (2018). Thomas Cromwell: A Life, p. 422: "Probably in 1530 she became the second wife of a rather older Yorkshire gentleman, Sir Anthony Ughtred ... In 1533 or early 1534 they had a son, Henry, and then came a girl, Margery, not yet born when Ughtred died in 1534." ~~~~ Ammelida (talk) 05:30, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Sources are conflicting but I guess they didn’t have access to that will. Ok. There is still no mention of a sister though. Seems to be only one source that says she was the daughter of an Anthony. No mention of a mother. Then you quoted a book that’s relatively new. How do we know they didn’t just copy Wikipedia? A lot of people seem to do that still. They don’t research. There is no will for Anthony or Elizabeth? I would think another child would have been listed in Anthony’s will. I know Sir Thomas Parr provided for his unborn child in his will. Lady Meg (talk) 16:41, 18 June 2023 (UTC)