Talk:Henry C. Rogers

Merge proposal

User:Cilidus has tagged Henry and Roz Rogers for merger into Henry C. Rogers without starting a discussion. Here is the discussion where they can explain their thoughts and others can respond/contribute as well. DMacks (talk) 14:06, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

"Henry and Roz Rogers" is an article about the subject of this article (Henry C. Rogers) and his wife Rosalind ("Roz"). While articles about duos do exist (cf. Bonnie and Clyde, Laurel and Hardy and Gilbert and Sullivan), Henry and Roz did not work together, and their careers are largely unrelated. Since Roz does not appear to be significant enough in her own right, it seems most logical to merge the two articles and only briefly mention her in this article. In any case, Henry C. Rogers is not notable enough to warrant an article about himself as well as an article about him and his wife. Cilidus (talk) 14:18, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Henry C. Rogers ("HCR") was started from scratch years after Henry and Roz Rogers ("H&RR") had existed. I agree that H&RR does seem to be about the two separate people as individuals not notable as a pair together, so I don't think that article should remain. However, there are some notability claims made about Roz, maybe enough that Roz Rogers could be forked off? Given the articles' history, technically HCR should be merged into H&RR (maybe WP:HISTMERGEd) and moved to the HCR name rather than copying content from H&RR into HCR. Need to preserve attribution and the timeline of an un-noticed content-fork for Henry. DMacks (talk) 16:08, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

As for forking off Roz, I do not find her notable. The most worthy mention I have found is a Variety obituary, in which she only appears notable because of her husband. She only receives a passing mention in Henry's New York Times obituary and in her daughter's Hollywood Reporter obituary.

Since HCR's article has a much better structure and language than H&RR, I thought it natural to keep this one as the primary page. I cannot comment on the technicalities of WP:HISTMERGE, however it appears to be the most logical solution if it can be performed smoothly. Cilidus (talk) 17:13, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

I have now looked for a while, and am not finding enough independent notability of Roz. In the history of the H&RR page, User:Tattered demalion (now-inactive) made an edit-summary "this should really be the Henry Rogers page if it is going to exist at all" and left a talk-page message:

Although this page clearly owes its existence to an overzealous relative (hi Nicholas), I think it deserves to stay because of the relations to the Schulberg family and the fact that this is the only place where info about Ad Schulberg is collected. The info about the family and descendants is maybe a bit excessive, but I like how it illustrates the flows of nepotism, wealth, and status in LA.

If someone has secondary refs about this as a topic (rather than WP editors trying to weave that story from loose facts and synthesize them ourselves), it would surely be at some place other than just an article claiming to be about just these two people.

Thinking about merging and the timeline/attribution of content, is there actually anything in H&RR is worth salvaging into the HCR article? I see some near word-for-word passages. But they could just as easily be cut'n'pasted from an external source (example: match in content cited to the same April 29, 1995 LA Times ref, but I can't access the ref itself to check). If there really isn't anythin g substantive worth merging, then this article could just go away altogether. DMacks (talk) 19:34, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

I personally do not see anything in the H&RR article "worth salvaging". Most of Roz's section talks only about other famous people (Roz's relatives, friends and guests at their guesthouse). The rest makes grand statements about working with high profile politicians and having "influenced the beginnings of serious art collecting in Los Angeles". I have found nothing to back these statements up. Cilidus (talk) 20:22, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

WP:PRODded. DMacks (talk) 22:16, 10 January 2022 (UTC)