Talk:Helena Beat

Promo single?

Isn't this single really more of a promo single? I have yet to see it surface any place where it's purchasable by a consumer (and no, a free download on iTunes doesn't count); I have literally only seen promo singles for radio stations of this. Like this one. Have any of you seen it purchasable anywhere? If not, wouldn't it be more sensible to change the infobox to reflect it as a promotional single? Electricnet (talk) 20:54, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

It's not a promo. NYSMtalk page 23:18, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Here. NYSMtalk page 23:23, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Does that link really prove anything? It doesn't link me to anywhere I can buy it that's not the album. "Houdini" is on that site too (even mentioned as "the debut single"), and we just labeled that one a promo single here. Electricnet (talk) 09:09, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

The song has a music video and is currently in the top 10 of Billboards Alternative Songs chart, idk.. I've asked for input from a friend NYSMtalk page 13:33, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Found a review in Billboard, and they don't usually review non-singles or promo-only singles. Almost everything else I'm finding is just calling it a "single" as if it's the de facto follow-up. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:47, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I've noticed that as well. That's actually what confuses me the most: If it really is a single, why can't I buy it anywhere? Honestly, I think that if people write it as a "single", they don't really care if it isn't available separately; simply calling something a single doesn't specify whether it's promo or not. For people trying to cater to consumers, like Billboard.com reviews, if it's a popular hit and/or music video, people know it; it doesn't matter under what technical details it was released. But I think the difference is that since we are able to specify this, we probably should. We should try to reflect the reality. I don't think having a music video and a high placement in charts does anything to change the type of single it is; I've seen music videos for promo singles many times before; even some for album tracks. Isn't it a promo single nevertheless if it's only available separate from the album for promotional purposes? It's not like this is degrading the single in any way either; some artists just don't release subsequent album singles separately for consumers because they'd rather prefer they buy the album. Electricnet (talk) 19:45, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Dude, this fucking single was shipped to radio, is charting, and has a music video. What god damn band and record label in their right mind would go over an entire year without releasing their sophomore single? Sometimes you have got to use common sense. Every fucking website I look at calls it a single, I have yet to see it called a promo single on any site, PLEASE give me a source that calls it promotional. NYSMtalk page 22:49, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Dude. I am trying to better this wiki page, so let's have a civil discussion here. It all depends on your definition of what a promo single is, which I must admit isn't always very tangible. Promotional recording#Promo single calls it a "single that is made available to nightclubs, radio stations, music publications" and "not for resale". That is, *I* as a consumer can't buy it other than from the album. So, looking at your points about the single:

"is charting"

Doesn't make a difference. Promo singles have charted many times before. Like Speak Now (song).

"has a music video"

Even album tracks can have music videos, like this one from Hot Chip (from The Warning). And so can promo singles. Love on Top is another example of a song that got a music video seemingly before it was even decided to be a single (article at the time).

"[who] would go over an entire year without releasing their sophomore single?"

They did release their sophomore single. A promo single is still a single, no? "Single" is in the name. It's just not released for commercial purchase separately.

"PLEASE give me a source that calls it promotional"

Okay.

"shipped to radio"

... and that above, is my entire point. It was shipped to radio. Nothing else. Which is, according to Promotional recording#Promo single, exactly what a promo single does.

Again, it depends on definition, and I just choose to go by the one mentioned on this very wiki. I'm not sure which definition you have of a promo single, but you seem to think it's not a single at all. I'm not trying to discredit the band here. I like these guys. I'm not trying to claim it's not a single. It is, it's just a technical detail concerning which type of single. Nevertheless, it's a technical detail we should reflect if we have the capacity to reflect it. It's really a very tiny thing I want to change. But you're acting like it's the end of the world: Reverting a constructive edit instantly, then swearing at me when I simply want to know why. Electricnet (talk) 00:58, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I think the bottom point is you think it's promotional and I don't. I can't change your mind, and you can't change mine. So, since this is of such a degree of importance to you, it can be changed, because this discussion is getting old. NYSMtalk page 01:42, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I know that just because it has a music video, it doesn't make it a single. However, it is purchasable (somehow, someway) and it has charted on some major charts. Just because it wasn't as popular as "Pumped Up Kicks", doesn't mean that it's not a single, either. Please take this into thought and consideration. - Easy4me (talk) 12:52, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Do we have any consensus on this issue yet? Personally, I consider "Helena Beat" to be a full-fledged, official single, as I can't find any good sources that state it's nothing more than a promotional single (I don't consider the eBay link: official singles have been released as promotional singles: take this one.) Almost all of the sources I've gone to simply refer to it as "the next single" or a "single". Holiday56 (talk) 15:57, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

But if it's only available as a promo single, isn't it all the proof you need? From my point of view, it's very simple. Simply show me a place where I can buy it as a single. That's it. If I can't buy it as a single anywhere without it saying "promotial use only, not for sale" (and trust me, I've looked), that sounds like a promo single, right? A lot of articles on the net simply refer to it as a "single", yeah, but I don't expect them to specify every technical detail about the single just so we can reach a consensus on some encyclopedia. As I said previously, not everyone cares that it's a promo single, but simply because they don't mention it, doesn't mean it isn't. You don't need to scour articles on the net to figure out if it's a real, official, purchasable single. No, it's much, much, much simpler. We need proof of just one thing: Existence. And in this big long winded debate of something that's actually a really simple thing, that's the only thing I haven't found proof of. Electricnet (talk) 18:05, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

"Simply show me a place where I can buy it as a single." - Are you referring to physical singles, openly available for commercial purchase? Because the lack of a release of these kinds of singles is not necessarily proof that the song fails to qualify for full-fledged single status. Take "Raining Men" and "Lift Off", examples of singles solicited to radio in their respective fields (in these cases, to urban radio, as radio singles) and still counted as full-fledged singles. "Helena Beat", just like these two singles, was also solicited to its field (alternative radio; source). A discussion took place on WP:SONGS that determined that the existence of US radio add dates determined that the single could be considered a full-fledged single as opposed to just a promotional single, at least in the United States (see the "Raining Men" talk page for more info on this). If so, then "Helena Beat" should be considered one as well. Holiday56 (talk) 10:51, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Who sings this song?

It sounds like a woman to me, but it seems there are no women in Foster the People. What's the deal? Vranak (talk) 23:18, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

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