Talk:Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds/Archive 1

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Some feedback

• A capsule history of the band in perhaps a paragraph would be a good way to open the "Background" section. The album comes just as Clapton left and Beck joined and seems to assume the reader should know that.

Added more historical details, but tied to "rave up" and the album release.

• • On that note, a bit more could be added about the aftermath of the album—Page's relation to the band in particular, especially as he appears on a bonus track and was soon to be in the band—I recall seeing a video of Page miming to Beck's performance of "Heart Full of Soul" for some lipsynched TV show, though I can't find it at the moment. This album seems to come right at the heart of the band's revolving door of guitarists and could use some detail on that.

HARU was the second of three albums with Beck and released about mid-point in his career with YB (8 mos. after Clapton left & 10 mos. before Page on guitar). I added a performances section with some transitional info and their appearance in Blowup.

• Rolling Stone magazine ranked Having a Rave Up at number 355 on its list of "The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time". I feel like this belongs in the body, but not the lead, especially since they do these things periodically (they did one of these lists for their 20th anniversary in 1987, for instance).

Removed, but re-added a Rolling Stone quote that sums it up nicely.

• • On the other hand, I might add some band background to the lead—we get "with guitarists Eric Clapton contributing the former and Jeff Beck the latter" with no explanation why some tracks are with one guitarist and others with another. The lead could also use a gloss of "rave up".

Added. Should the other members get a mention? (Most sources dwell on the guitarists).

• "Evil Hearted You" also explored different musical scales.: I think we need more detail here—does "different scales" mean "unusual scales", or does it mean the song uses several scales? Or something else?

Removed and added the bit about a Middle Eastern influence.

• I'll probably come back with more (sorry, I had a sleepless night and am having trouble concentrating). Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:42, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
• Equipment details might be nice—it looks like all three guitarists used Fenders, which would surprise many as all three were later known (not necessarily accurately) as Gibson players. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:49, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Couldn't find any sources that tie equipment to the album. Some say Clapton bought a Tele after joining YB, other say it belonged to the management (poss. used on the live cuts). In his autobiography, he doesn't mention it, but talks about finally buying his "dream" guitar, a Gibson ES-335, which appears later in 1964. Rhythm player Chris Dreja has been pictured playing a 335, a Jazzmaster, and a Jaguar. Clapton is also pictured playing a Jazzmaster (Dreja's?) and a Gretsch Country Gentleman-looking model. Beck "thinks" he started off playing Clapton's (or the band's) Tele (poss. used on Heart & Evil), but bought a '54 Esquire (the one on the album cover), which he took to the US (& probably used for recording Train, I'm a Man, Better Man, & Shapes). In 1966, he switched to Les Pauls. Page used a Tele (Beck had given him one), but sometimes played Beck's LP when he was sick and later got his own. Early photos usually show them playing through Vox amps. Not sure how to tie this to the album.

• Should the infobox really be calling this a "psychedelic rock" album? Certainly the term doesn't fit the album as a whole, and the body seems to describe proto-psychedelic elements. Genres in the infobox should be kept to terms that can describe the overall sound—otherwise, imagine the ridiculous lists of genres late Beatles albums would sport. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:29, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Good points – I've begun to work on them. I agree with your comment on the genres. Psychedelic rock was recently added with a long edit summary[1] (maybe now ThisCharmingMan15 will provide the RS). Some editors add all genres associated with any song on the album (Are You Experienced is a blues and an R&B album?, Axis: Bold as Love is a jazz and a pop rock album?, etc.). Because of all the abuse, I think the genre field should be eliminated from infoboxes and be referenced in the text. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:32, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Curly Turkey, I think this is ready for another look (an IP has re-added psychedelic rock). —Ojorojo (talk) 22:35, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Ojorojo: Sorry I haven't gotten back here yet. I'll try to find the time soon. One thing I want you to think about, though, is who might be reading this article: many readers will be clicking through from another article and may not know anything about the Yardbirds. By a "capsule history" I was hoping you could briefly tell the reader who the Yardbirds were. "By early 1964, the Yardbirds attracted a following on the London home counties club circuit" is a bit bewildering for someone who doesn't know who the Yardbirds is: What does "by early 1964" mean, for instance? Does it mean "after decades of hard work"? Does it mean "shortly after they formed"? I see other issues like this—it's several sentences in before we're introduced to the band, but we're introduced to the manager right away. Try imaging yourself as someone with only marginal knowledge of the album, if at all, and imagine what information you would ant to know to orient yourself to it. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:14, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

OK, I've expanded/refined the lead and background. I was hesitant about the cliched "the band that launched the careers of three of rock's most famous guitarists". Also, I haven't found any sources that discuss why the first two US albums were split between Clapton and Beck, except that it was the manager's choice. The first US album also featured both, although there were enough available studio tracks for a complete album with Clapton. With Beck's tracks from the first album and three B-sides, HARU could have been a complete album with Beck. So I don't think having tracks from both shows that it is transitional and is probably due to financial considerations. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:50, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Having a Rave Up with The Yardbirds/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 04:14, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

• Hi, I'll review this. FunkMonk (talk) 04:14, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Hello Funk Monk. I appreciate your review. Curly Turkey has offered some feedback and might like a say in this.[2] —Ojorojo (talk) 14:41, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
    • Oh, no, I'm fine with it—I was going to do the review because you requested it, but I was going to do the feedback regardless. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 14:53, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I guess the article will be improved either way... FunkMonk (talk) 20:00, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

• Any reason why the preceding and following albums aren't listed in the infobox, as with most other albums in their discography?

• I've begun to see a lot of these navigational fields (chronologies, singles from the album, alternate covers, etc.) as clutter. Also, the album wasn't released in the UK, so it would only specific to the US (even some of the Canadian releases have different titles). I'll add it if consistency with the other albums if preferred. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:41, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, I must admit that this is actually one of the infobox features I actually use when just reading articles, it makes it very easy to quickly navigate through the discography of a band. Also, all their other albums have it, so it really breaks continuity/standardisation... I'd say either they all have it, or none have it. But I'd prefer they all did. FunkMonk (talk) 20:00, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Re-added & cleaned up the rest (at least until the early '70s, when their catalogue was farmed out). —Ojorojo (talk) 23:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

• "Eric Clapton replaced Topham in October 1963, a change in lead guitarists that would be repeated two more times" Not sure what is meant by the wording, that they changed lead guitarist two more times? Now it reads like this exact change (Clapton with Topham) was made two more times..

Clarified (this was an attempt at more group bio). —Ojorojo (talk) 23:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

• "Dubbed a "rave up", this musical arrangement usually comes during the middle instrumental section, in which the beat shifts into double-time and the instrumental improvisation gradually builds to a climax" Why is this in present tense when it is used to describe their performances in the 60s? The quote also uses past tense...

Changed all to past tense. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

• "The four remaining songs live songs" Seems like a mistake.

Corrected. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

• I think this has been brought up elsewhere (album project talk page long ago), one might expect the recording section to follow the background section, but I guess it is a matter of taste.
• "The liner notes read like ad copy" an ad copy?
  • The "copy" in "ad copy" is a non-count noun, basically meaning "text". Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:04, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Changed, but "notes reads" sounds awkward. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

It was correct the way it was—"notes" is the subject. What I meant is that "ad copy" can't take the definite article. I've reverted. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:07, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

• Seems important enough for the intro to mention that they didn't write most of the songs on the album?

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

• That was quick! That is really all issues that came to mind, so I guess Curly Turkey can add further issues here, or will you just continue on the talk page? FunkMonk (talk) 23:46, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

He said he will wait until it's done, so let's wrap it up. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:56, 27 March 2016 (UTC) Curly Turkey, I didn't notice that you were commenting. Take some time, I'll check back tomorrow. —Ojorojo (talk)

No, I'll wait til everything's done. The stuff I wanted to look at wasn't necessarily related to GA eligibility. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I'll just go ahead and pass this then. Nice work! FunkMonk (talk) 00:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks again Funk Monk. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:42, 28 March 2016 (UTC)