Talk:Hard Candy (Madonna album)/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Cavie78 (talk) 15:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): (citations to reliable sources): (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Hello again Legolas - another great article, congrats on your hard work! I have a few concerns with the prose that need addressing before I can promote to GA but nothing too serious. I'll detail below over the next 24 hours (sorry for the minor delay!) Cavie78 (talk) 19:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Gee, thanks Cavie. Looking forward to your review. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

General

• I'm not 100% sure about the copyright status of the image of the album cover made with jellybeans. If it's classed as an artwork then I think it's not allowed as copyright remains with the artist not the photographer.
  • If an artwork is up for public display, in this case at MAdame Tussauds, then the copyright doesnot remain with the artist anymore as he/she is the one allowing it in public domain. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm still don't know about this so I've asked a question at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions just to be sure. Cavie78 (talk) 20:08, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
      • See reply here Legolas - looks like it needs to be removed. On a side note, sorry it's taking me a while to complete my review, I keep getting distracted by visitors everytime I sit down at my PC. Cavie78 (talk) 23:02, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
        • Oh I see, well removed :) --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:52, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Background (Lead and Background and development sections)

• Not too sure about the order of things here. Might it be better to talk about the demos she made with Williams first then her collaboration with Timberlake? I'm a bit confused as to the overall sequence of events. Did she work with Timbaland then Williams then Timberlake? Do you have any specifics about Hills' involvement?

Lead

• "It was her final studio album with the record company, before the greatest hits album Celebration, marking the end of a 25 year recording history." This reads a bit like "Hard Candy was Madonna's last album ... before another one" Can we maybe get rid of the mention of Celebration here? It's a greatest hits rather than a studio album so might be better to keep it out of the lead for clarity. Cavie78 (talk)
  • Done. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 03:52, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
• "She had initially decided to portray herself as the Black Madonna for the cover art, but later decided against the idea because she felt that it would cause an uproar." This doesn't sound very encyclopedic. Could you change to something like "...because she felt the idea may have been seen as controversial."? Also, could you mention that the album was going to be called Black Madonna and perhaps have this statement first before saying that she eventually decided on Hard Candy?
  • Yeah sure :) --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:59, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Background and development

• Quote from Timbaland - There's lots of revelant information here but I think it could be trimmed. For example the first sentence could read "[Me and Justin] just did Madonna's record, [...] She's great. ... She's got a hot album."
  • trimmed down all he blabbery-jabbery :) --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:59, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
• "Initial recordings of "Candy Shop" and "Beat Goes On", which featured rapper Kanye West, were leaked in the Internet." Do you know when this happened? Do the MTV and Sun quotes refer to their opinion of the album after listening to these leaked tracks?
  • Actually removed it per WP:LEAK. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:59, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Recording

• "The first song they recorded..." Who is "they"? Madonna, Williams and Timberlake?
  • Rephrased. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:59, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
• "...a catchy hook and make it sound like a concept." I'm not sure what the phrase "a concept" means in this context.
  • Sound like a concept means to make it sound like a storyline, a history behind it. Not sure how to phrase it though. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:59, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
• "shrink sessions" This isn't a very encyclopedic way of putting things. Do you mean that Madonna had some sort of counseling session with Timberlake so she help him understand her feelings and emotions?
  • Counselling sounds better, or group-discussions. Rephrased. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:59, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
    • I'll finish my review today - really sorry for the delay, I didn't realise I'd have so much real world stuff dumped on me when I took this GA on but at least we're halfway now! Thanks for you patience. Cavie78 (talk) 09:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
      • Hey cmon, no big deal. Real life is always more important than this. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:48, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Music structure and composition

• Some of the material in the first paragraph seems a little superflous. For example the quote from Williams regarding "Candy Shop" could be trimmed. Why is the fact that "Give It 2 Me" has an interlude in which Madonna sings "Get stupid" while Williams chants "To the left, to the right" important? And again with "Heartbeat", why is the fact that Madonna says "See my booty get down" of note?
  • Better would be to remove the MTV quote. And removed the things you feel are quite superflous. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
• The quote box is the only place that you mention the fact that Madonna considers most of the songs to be autobiographical. I think this is a pretty key point and should be mentioned in the main body of the text.
  • Rephrased. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
• "designated to generate heat" - is this a quote from Mtv? It should either be a direct quote or rephrased.
  • See above. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
• I'm not sure what "bounce-beats" are or what "driving-turned-skittering" means, can you clarify?
• "The song has an interlude where Madonna continuously repeates the words "Get stupid", as Williams chants, "To the left, to the right," but soon passes." Do you mean the interlude is short? In which case I'd just say "has a short interlude" and remove "but soon passes"
  • LOL. Of course. My bad. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:42, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
• "The next track "Incredible" starts off like a love song but reveals itself to be a plea to someone to start over, while changing its structure all the while." I'm not sure what you mean by "changing its structure all the while" The song's structure changes as it progresses?
  • Clarified. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:42, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
• When you quote lyrics you use a forward slash (/) directly after the end of each line - are you doing this for a reason? Stylistically I think it would look better if you either use a comma instead or insert a space beforehand.
  • Is it? Well changed it. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:42, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
  • I copyedited and rephrased the whol;e section. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Critical reception

• I'd like to see you provide more of an overall impression of reviews and the things they picked up on rather than just taking one line from each review you use and presenting it as "The BBC said..." A particularly bad example is the quote from Kerri Mason of Billboard. It's a good sounbite but you present it without any sort of context e.g. you could say that particular reviews commented on the production, give examples of good and bad reactions then have the Billboard quote (hope that makes sense)
  • Rephrased. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:42, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Singles

• "The music video featured Madonna recreating her look from the Elle magazine May covergirl photo shoot" What look is this?
  • A retro look. Mentioned. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
• "...due to limited radio play." Doesn't seem to be backed up by the source.
  • Removed. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Promotion

• "Chris Harris from MTV reviewed the show at Madison Square Garden, New York" - I think the show was actually at the Roseland Ballroom hence Harris's comment that it would have been better suited to the Garden.
  • Oops. That was embarassing. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
• "The Maidstone show faced problems with the organisers due to Madonna's use of swearing, causing complaints to be made to the BBC." You should state that the show was broadcast on Radio 1 hence the complaints.
  • Right. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Sticky & Sweet Tour

• "...supported by a number of famous designers and brands" Such as?
  • Added. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Review status

• Hi Legolas, just to let you know that I'm currently on holiday with limited internet access but will complete the review when I get back (the weekend of the 23rd July) Changes look good but I don't want to rush things from an internet cafe! Have you dealt with my concerns under the 'Background (Lead and Background and development sections)' heading above by the way? Cavie78 (talk) 20:41, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Ya Cavie, I did look at the concerns as you mentioned, and rephrased a lot of the sections. Have a nice vacation! Where have you gone by the way? :) --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm in Barcelona which is nice but a bit too hot for my liking! Cavie78 (talk) 18:06, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Remaining concerns

Thanks for sticking with me Legolas! Everything looks good but I've got a few conerns that still need addressing:

1. "According to The Sun, "The album, overall, has an urban pop vibe, while remaining a dance-pop record at heart" Firstly you should set this quote in context e.g. During production The Sun described the album as having "an urban pop vibe, while remaining a dance-pop record at heart" Secondly I can't see the quote in the source you've provided...

   I could have sworn that it was there??

2. Further to the above the Sun article doesn't seem to mention anything about the track "Give It 2 Me" despite appearing as a cite in the paragraph about the song in the 'Music structure and composition' section.

   That was a wrong cite due to using "thesun" as refrence name. Deleting the previous now links it to the correct cite.

3. Do you have any details about Nate "Danja" Hills' involvement?

   Only details I have of Danja comes from the liner notes where Madonna thanks him for some of the stuff. Do you think we can expand on that. Like production and stuff. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 05:27, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

   Don't think that's necessary - you've already stated that he helped produce the album just thought there might be something out there that said specifically what he did in the same way that you've found things about Timbaland's involvement. The above concerns have been addressed so I'm happy to promote, good work! Cavie78 (talk) 09:29, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

   Thanks Cavie. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 09:53, 26 July 2010 (UTC)