Talk:Haplogroup Q-M242

Use of Phylogenetic Trees to show distribution

Currently there are several different phylogenetic trees used in both scientific and popular (trade) literature. Using any one tree to show distribution within population groups is preferential and violates WP:NOR. Such usage also makes the article susceptible to WP:SYNTH violations.--RebekahThorn (talk) 12:43, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Haplogroup Q Y-DNA in Americas

Why is there no mention about dominance of Haplogroup Q among native populations throughout Americas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.130.14.167 (talk) 14:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Dominance is a loaded word. This is especially true in population genetics. It would be true to say that several Q-M346 subclades were part of early migrations to the Americas and that Q-M3 is by far the most common one in current descendants of these early migrants.

If anyone cares to go back over specific papers and sources, that would certainly be nice. :-) --RebekahThorn (talk) 17:03, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Scandinavian Q Y-DNA

Apparently there is a sublineage of Q1a3* (Q-M346) which is considered a Scandinavian (and possibly Russian) haplotype & subvariety. According to an admin from the Scandinavian DNA project at FamilyTreeDNA the group (or 'Group 1' of such a group) is distinguished by DYS385a-b=13,12 and DYS392=14 in a 12 marker STR test. Since in Europe this Y-haplogroup seems to be associated with jews, it might be of interest to make mention in the article of where exceptions to this exist. From my purely speculative mind of (regarding synthesis & original research that shouldn't belong in the article) I'm driven to think of the distinct phenotypal minority groups recognized by certain obsolete schools of anthropological taxonomy in Scandinavia, namely the "Standid" & "Tydal" types (probably isolated non-lappoid population pockets from some time in prehistory). Nagelfar (talk) 04:20, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Haplogroup Q1a3-M346 has also been found in Pakistan (Pashtuns, Makrani Balochs), India (Vellalars, Halbas, Uttar Pradesh Brahmins), and Tibet. I'm afraid that examples of haplogroup Q from many parts of the Old World, including Europe, have not yet been tested for M346; it may turn out to be the most widespread subclade of haplogroup Q in the Old World as well as in the New. Ebizur (talk) 08:37, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

There's also another sublineage in Switzerland. СЛУЖБА (talk) 23:41, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Is there any more information about where the numbers for Norway and Sweden come from and more specifically which ethnic groups were tested? Were the Qs found among ethnic Norwegians and Swedes or Sami, for instance? Maitreya (talk) 14:09, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Among Norwegians and Swedes. I don't remember the source, though. twitter.com/YOMALSIDOROFF (talk) 06:49, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

If Wikipedia was morally integral or wishes to be, it would publicly emphasize AS GOOD DEMOCRATIC ENLIGHTENMENT-TRADITION PROGRESSIVE HUMANISTS, the factual situation regarding these "explosive untouchable" matters alluded to above (surprisingly, left without being editorially deleted!) - these MORALLY-SIGNIFICANT PAN-HUMANIST facts and bits of reality, would be the center of the article for the sake of authentically ideologically "progressive" reasons, alone -

I am unfortunately learning "editors" and "admins" here are not totally immune to cynical, Machiavellian political agendas, political ideological commitments with SUBZERO interest in reality as it is... In black ironic disillusionment, the most "liberal" Wikipedian "magistrates" are, mathematically, to the degree of "progressive humanist liberal" motivation and magnanimity claimed and awarded communally, these very same individuals are correspondingly, the most viciously illiberal and uninterested in objectivity of supra-human Truth...

The cleverest of such editors, cover the bases by giving the most ostentatious posture and poseur aping of Enlightened progressive intellectualism in selective superficiality of "contributions", merely to fool the common sheep readership: in actuality the academic "pluralism" and "democratic ethos" here appears wholly illusory and power resides in a self-selected bureaucratic ethno-political network of numerically smallest number, espionage-like in character, and as Janus-faced as two-faced gets...

Humanist democratic progressive liberalism is paper-thin on Wikipedia, the deceitful "selling point" given to the "sucker" of Mafia psychological predatory evaluation... Readers are viewed as mere potential suckers, depressingly... "Democratic enlightened ideology" serves in calculated self-interest, as the cloaking layer of crypsis in pitifully ugly, grossly human inter-group, bestially concupiscent Gumplowicz-variety "RASSENKAMPF"... The clique of bigots is specifically committed to a certain world-view, historically traceable to the following:

http://www.saveisrael.com/others/ahimeir/ahimeirbio.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:B34B:A940:45B9:9D2:2589:EE59 (talk) 07:26, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Y-DNA haplogroups by ethnic groups

The above article has been listed for deletion. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Y-DNA haplogroups by ethnic groups. Wapondaponda (talk) 04:27, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Published Studies

I have removed the frequency of 9%, referenced to Regueiro. The 2006 study sampled only 33 individuals from the Northeastern tip of Iran (which may have even included Iranian Minorities). I've replaced it with the 2004 and 2009 studies by Ivan Naszide, which consist of a much broader sampling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.24.44.220 (talk) 03:27, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Please do not delete published studies. Rather add additional studies and note the limitations of each.--RebekahThorn (talk) 12:43, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

1) To make such edits, I guess it's better to register and introduce yourself.

2) From where do You have information that the "North Iran" sample is actually from the Northeastern tip of Iran?

3) Regueiro2006 nowhere says "Persian". It uses the terms "Iran" and "Iranian". Which population was studied is really unclear: whether it is Persian, speakers of languages of the Iranian branch or different ethnicities of the country of Iran. СЛУЖБА (talk) 23:15, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Ancient links between Siberians and Native Americans revealed by subtyping the Y chromosome haplogroup Q1a

See [1] "Ancient links between Siberians and Native Americans revealed by subtyping the Y chromosome haplogroup Q1a" which is a new article in the Journal of Human Genetics. "Q1a*-MEH2 likely traces a population migration originating in Northeast Siberia across the Bering Strait." However, this is a relatively late connection, "Despite the low coalescence age of haplogroup Q1a3*-M346, which is estimated in South Siberia as about 4.5±1.5 thousand years ago (Ka), divergence time between these Q1a3*-M346 haplotypes and Amerindian-specific haplogroup Q1a3a-M3 is equal to 13.8±3.9?Ka, pointing to a relatively recent entry date to America. " and "Although the level of STR diversity associated with Q1a*-MEH2 is very low, this lineage appears to be closest to the extinct Palaeo-Eskimo individuals belonging to the Saqqaq culture arisen in the New World Arctic about 5.5?Ka" Dougweller (talk) 16:37, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I completely fail to understand the sentence "Despite the low coalescence age of haplogroup Q1a3*-M346, which is estimated in South Siberia as about 4.5±1.5 thousand years ago (Ka), divergence time between these Q1a3*-M346 haplotypes and Amerindian-specific haplogroup Q1a3a-M3 is equal to 13.8±3.9?Ka, pointing to a relatively recent entry date to America." СЛУЖБА (talk) 23:27, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

The Moral-Scientific Necessity-Imperative of Transcending All-too-Human "Identity-Politics"

Haplogroup Q, like G/M201, shows the moral and scientific necessity on the part of all, researchers and readers alike, of transcending contemporaneous identitarian politicized ideological lenses of perception if we choose to actually engage reality here...

Our "ideological spooks" must NOT be tolerated, whether "Native American nationalist", "Nordicist" or WHATEVER - they all are alike on the moral plane, representative of moral regressive involution!

The forensically-verified, positivist "archaeo-ethnographic" truth about Haplogroup Q illustrates the obsolescent, retrograde conceptual artifacts moderns use to conceptualize reality, born of petty-political egotistic tribal idols, are long past need of burying, for the sake of progressive Enlightenment pan-humanism, at the bare minimum...

Aryan-Nordic fascistic types and "Amerindian" neo-tribal nationalistic groups ALIKE are claiming different facets of the results of the investigatory efforts into the origins and distribution-channels of "Q" for their own perverted anti-humanistic agendas - "proving Aryanism" or "proving 'nativist' 'Amerindian' claims" etc. - WE MUST NIP IN THE BUD AND FIGHT WITH REASON EVERY SUCH REGRESSIVE DISTORTION CURRENT! The "Native American" regressive groups are as equally intolerable as the Nazis!

WHAT WIKIPEDIA NEEDS TO DO TO BE MORALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY RESPECTABLE AND HONORABLE: EMPHASIZE THE APOLITICAL, UNPOPULAR TRUTH "Q" IS NEITHER "PROTO-ARYAN" NOR "PALEO-AMERINDIAN" (OR BOTH AND MORE!)...EXPLICATE THE POLY-DIMENSIONAL UNDER-STRATA OF COMPLEX ARCHAEO-ANTHROGENIC ACTUALITY HERE! NO "POLITICALLY CORRECT" EFFEMINACY IN *ANY* DIRECTION!

THE NATIVE AMERICAN FASCISTS NEED TO BE BELLIGERENTLY INFORMED AS URGENTLY AS THE FASCISTS OF "WESTERN EUROPEAN" KIND!

Here is the main thing: Y HG G is (perhaps the most important among others?) the connective link demonstrative of COMMON FRATERNAL LINEAL CON-SUBSTANTIAL "RACE" betwixt "Western Caucasian Europeans" and (self-identified) "Native American Amerindians": - Wikipedia needs to be morally responsible and scientifically razor-edge here!

The "Chinese" findings of Y HG Q (Q-M3) in "Western China" need to be incorporated into the article, in order to emphasize the reality of how Y HG Q was once widely genetically-racially scattered throughout so-called "NORTHERN EURASIA" - INCLUDING EUROPE.

The samples of Q from Celtic, Scandinavian, Germanic and other "European-Caucasoid" folk are not "FLUKES" and are not meaningless "NOVEL VARIANTS" but attest to the same thing as the above-mentioned Chinese data!

NO "ETHNIC PIMPING" or, as Nietzsche styled the matter, "RACIAL SWINDLING" of the regressive "demotic" tendency allowed!

Why are so-called "pluralist liberals" opposed to me here on Wikipedia, I am mentally befuddled, and cannot understand why this pan-humanistic progressive goal is so violently opposed?!

The unpopular trans-"RACIALIST" trans-"IDENTITY POLITICAL" reality is slowly, gradually dawning upon people, or, at least, the more conscience-integrity self-commanded, HONEST people...

The profiteers of "ethnic-tribal-totemic" identiarian demagogic regression among corporate pop-DNA entities (FTDNA, 23 and Me, etc.), who, unscientifically and unethically, fallaciously advertise their ability to compartmentalize ethnically genetic samples in terms of "our" populism, can only maintain the obsolete tribal Stirnerian "conceptual idolic phantoms" so long...

The neo-Fascists infesting their clientele, self-identifying "Native American" and "Aryan" political ideologues pridefully obsessive about "puristic" demarcations of ethnicity NONEXISTENT, shall be dispossessed of the right to monopolize things sooner or later, the neutral DATUM can only be denied for so long...

IN SUMMARY: WIKIPEDIA, AS POPULAR VEHICLE OF DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION, CONFORM TO YOUR ETHICAL-"DEMOCRATIC" DUTY: UPHOLD THE HIGHER MORAL GROUND HERE AND PROMOTE SCIENTIFIC-MORAL INTEGRITY -

ACTIVELY INFORM THE MASSES OF PEOPLE OF THE TRUTH, AS OPPOSED TO EITHER PASSING THE TRUTH OVER PASSIVELY, SILENTLY PRETENDING FACTUAL DATA ARE VOID OF MEANING AND NOT SPELLING OUT THE "UNTIMELY" RAMIFICATIONS OF THE ULTIMATE MEANING OF THE DATUM (AS THE CURRENT ARTICLE SEEMS TO HAVE AS ITS ORIENTATION)...OR, WORSE, FAIL TO MORALLY CONFORM TO YOUR DUTY, IN OVERTLY (IN SUBTLETY OF IMPLICITNESS!) COMPROMISING THE MANDATE OF ANY ENCYCLOPEDIA, VICTIMIZING THE COGNITIVE MATURITY OF THE READERSHIP IN MERETRICIOUSLY PERPETUATING THIS MODERN-STYLE, ULTRA-"TRENDY", AS NIETZSCHE COINED THIS VILE TECHNO-POPULIST PROPAGANDA-ART AND DEMO-PLUTOCRACY-CENTERED, MONETARIST PRACTICE OF IMMORAL VICE-TRADING OF THE MIND, SO PECULIAR TO MODERNS, THE ABOMINATION OF "OUR" "RACIAL SWINDLING"!

PAN-HUMANISTIC "MONOGENISM" IS THE TRUTH, THE MORALLY RELEVANT CONTEXT OF THESE MATTERS, AND SHOULD BE THE SUB-STRUCTURE OR SUB-TEXT OF OVERARCHING (META-ETHICAL) ACTUALITY HERE. WIKIPEDIA SHOULD BE COMBATIVE IN OPPOSING SCIENTIFICALLY-FALSE RACIALLY-CHARGED "ETHNIC (DEMAGOGIC) PARTICULARISM", UNDERMINING THE HUMANISTIC MONOGENETIC UNITY OF DIGNITY OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS, PROPAGANDIZING AN UNREAL IMPLICATION TO AN UNREAL, FALLACIOUSLY POSITED HUMAN ETHNIC-PHYLOGENY DIFFERENTIATION OF VAST INTERNAL SCOPE, ALLOWING THE ASCRIPTION OR VALUATION OR DEVALUATION OF DIGNITY TO DIFFERENTLY ASSIGNED SUB-RACIAL GROUPINGS.

ZERO TOLERANCE TO REGRESSIVE ANTI-HUMANISTIC NEO-FASCISTIC ENERGIES, AND NATIVE AMERICAN AMERINDIANS DO NOT POSSESS EXEMPTION HERE, PERIOD!

THE GENETICISTS, ANTHROPOLOGISTS AND PSEUDO-SCIENTIFIC OR SCIENTISTIC "MODERNISTIC GURUS" WHO RENDER THE RAW NEUTRALLY-INTERPRETIVE GENOMIC DATA OF SUBMITTED INDIVIDUALS INTO "ETHNIC-POPULIST FOLK-SOCIALIST FASCIST" LANGUAGE OF DEMAGOGUERY, PATENTLY OPENLY, MORE THAN GARISH AND VULGAR ("WHAT PERCENTAGE OF NORTHERN EUROPEAN ARE YOU?" "WHAT ETHNIC GENETIC PERCENTAGE OF NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN ARE YOU?" ARE SOME OF THE MORE ATROCIOUS ADVERTISEMENTS)...THIS MORE THAN CONCESSIONARY "APHRODISIAN" DISHONORING TO TRUTH ITSELF PERPETRATED IN THE NAME AND UNDER THE GUISE OF "SCIENCE"...THIS (WHY MINCE WORDS?) PROSTITUTION OF SCIENCE TO THE NEEDS OF "IDENTITARIAN" ETHNOCENTRISM, WHETHER INJECTED FROM ON HIGH OR ALREADY VIRAL AMID THE CONSUMER "FAN" BASE...THIS ABUSING OF THE NAME OF SCIENCE ALONG THESE LINES, MOTIVATED MUNDANELY SOLELY BY MERCENARY CAPITALISM IF NOT PIRATICAL WHITE COLLAR CRIMINALITY, WARRANTS MY IRE AND WARRANTS THE SEEMINGLY UNCONNECTED DIGRESSIVE MEDITATION UPON FASCISM AND MODERN FASCISM...

THESE ETHNICALLY-PANDERING QUASI-SCIENTISTS, HALF-TRADER, HALF-LABORATORY RAT, ARE, AMONG THE COMMONS, THE COMMONALITY WIKIPEDIA TARGETS IN ITS OWN SELF-CONCEPT, IN OVERT DECLARATORY DICTION...THESE ALL-TOO-HUMAN PEOPLE AND THEIR MODALITY OF EXPLOITATION OF WEAKNESSES OF THE HUMAN EGO, INDEED WARRANT MY HOLISTICALLY EXPLANATORY SIDE-PATHWAY DIVERSION INTO THAT DOMAIN... THE LARGER PICTURE HERE IS WHAT MATTERS... HAPLOGROUP Q IS ONLY OF THE MOST ILL-USED OF THE INTRINSICALLY NEUTRAL SCIENTIFIC REALITIES HERE, SO AMORALLY APPROPRIATED...

THE "AUTHORITATIVE" SELF-LEGITIMIZED "AUTHORITIES" OF POPULARIZED HUMAN GENETIC DNA SCIENCE ARE THE PROBLEM - THE ONES WHO DEMAGOGICALLY DISTORT THE MEANING OF "Q", AND HORRENDOUSLY MUCH MORE WITHIN GENETIC POPULATION STUDIES, AS IF THE ONE-DIMENSIONAL "NATIVE AMERICAN ETHNICITY" SIGNIFYING MARKER AND PROPAGANDIZING THEIR MISINFORMATION-STUPEFIED CUSTOMERS, ANY PERSON POSSESSING THE DETECTED HAPLOGROUP IS IPSO FACTO INARGUABLY, "NATIVE AMERICAN" AND NO OTHER SCENARIOS OF EXPLANATION EVEN EXIST!

E.G. A PUBLIC, COMMONLY REPORTED EVENT IN THIS SUB-CULTURAL MILIEU OF SCHIZOPHRENIC PSEUDO-SCIENCE: A NAIVE CELTIC, GERMANIC OR SCANDINAVIAN PERSON PAYS SHEKELS ABSURDLY UNJUSTIFIED TO LEARN THEIR "ETHNIC PERCENTAGE PORTRAIT", AND ARE UNILATERALLY, IDIOTICALLY AND SEMI-CRIMINALLY "INFORMED", EVEN IF OBJECTIVELY SHOWN IN LOCAL COBWEBBED CENTURY-SPANNING DOCUMENTATION AND LINEAL ROSTERS ETC. AS INDIGENOUS TO "EUROPE" AS IMAGINABLE, THESE PEOPLE ARE "INFORMED", THEIR CAUCASOID EUROPEAN ETHNICITY IS FRAUDULENT AND THEY ARE BASTARDIZED GOODS - END OF STORY! THE IDIO-VARIATIONS OF Q WITHIN MODERN EUROPEANS, CLEANSED OF ALL MEANING AND FALSIFIED AND TWISTED INTO DEPERSONALIZING ETHNIC-POPULIST "POP GENETIC PSYCHOLOGY"...IF NOT FASCISTIC, THEN ETHNO-MASOCHISTIC, EQUALLY MALICIOUS...

THE "NOVEL VARIANTS" OF Q ARE MEANINGFUL, GENOGRAPHICALLY AND BEYOND! THESE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE TOLD, IN ETHNIC PROSTITUTION LANGUAGE, THEY ARE SIMPLE ADULTEROUS, ADMIXED OR BASTARDIZED PRODUCTS OF ILLICIT RELATIONS! THIS IS CRIMINAL!

EUROPEAN-SPECIFIC "Q" sub-familial strains should be VALUED for the unique opportunities of seeing forgotten history otherwise inaccessible they are instead of maligned and the fact of possessing this or that genomic signature turned into an instrument of demagogic "racial pseudo-scientific" dehumanization!

Q AMONG EUROPEAN CAUCASOID FOLK DOES NOT NECESSARILY DOCUMENT HERETOFORE UNKNOWN LINEAL BASTARDY - WHAT A FELONIOUS DISSERVICE TO THESE POOR, RARE GERMAN, POLISH AND NORSE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE VALUED CONTRARILY FOR THEIR INDIVIDUAL UNIQUENESS! - MENDACIOUSLY MISINFORMED IN AUTHORITARIAN PSEUDO-SCIENTIFIC "NUMINOUS WITCH-DOCTOR" IRRESPONSIBILITY, THEIR SAMPLED SEQUENCES EQUATE TO LINEAR TERMS OF THESE INDIVIDUALS BEING BASTARDY TAINTED IN LINEAGE, MISINFORMED THEY NECESSARILY INCARNATE SOME IMAGINARY "NATIVE AMERICAN" ANCESTRAL ROOTS, AS IF, IF NOT PROMOTING FASCIST DEMAGOGUERY, PROMOTING ETHNIC MASOCHISM AMONG PSYCHOLOGICALLY HEALTHY LOCALLY-ROOTED PEOPLE OF THIS RICHLY DIVERSE HUMANLY POPULATED PLANET, THEY ARE DEVIATED IF NOT ALIENATED INTERNALLY FROM WHAT IS THEIR OWN ACTUAL ROOTED ORGANIC PERSONAL EQUATION, OF INTRINSICALLY ETHICALLY NEUTRAL VALUE AND NO INDIVIDUAL OF ANY BACKGROUND SHOULD BE FALSELY PUSHED INTO PSYCHO-SOCIAL DYSFUNCTION REGARDING THEIR ORIGINS!

WHATEVER THE TRUTH ABOUT ANY EARTHLING'S REAL-LIFE (AS OPPOSED TO MERETRICIOUSLY-VENDED!) "ETHNICITY" SHOULD NOT BE DISTORTED IMMORALLY ACCORDING TO ANY IDEOLOGICAL OR PERCEPTUALLY-DEGRADING UNSTATED "AGENDA" AS PRIMUM MOBILE EXISTING AMONG THESE RIFFRAFF EXPLOITING THE NAIVE OVER-BRIMMING THE STAFFS OF CORPORATIONS IN THE PRESENT-DAY "GENETIC GENEALOGY" SUB-CULTURE!

THE DIGRESSION INTO HOW PETTY-POLITICS OF FASCISTIC TENDENCY DISTORT THINGS IS WARRANTED BECAUSE OF SUCH REASONS!

THE PROFITEERS SPECIALIZING IN THE LUCRATIVE ETHNIC-PIMPING INDUSTRY OF MODERNITY ARE *NOT* LITTLE DEMIGODS OF HUMAN INFALLIBILITY OR ATTAINED PERFECTIBILITY!

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "ARYAN-NORDIC", THE WORLD ENTHUSIASTICALLY LOVES TO SHOVE INTO OUR MENTAL FACES TODAY - BUT THIS WAS NOT ALWAYS SO "PROGRESSIVELY" WELL-ESTABLISHED, THE ELITES SELF-PLACED OF THE WEST DELUDE THEMSELVES MERELY!

THE ERROR AND HOLLOWNESS OF THE NORDIC-ARYAN "THEORY", WAS DISPROVED, ON THE LEVEL OF EARTHLY FALLEN EGOS AND MINDS, ONLY THROUGH FIRE AND PAIN OF CORPOREAL WARFARE, BLUNTLY; THE MORE SAGACIOUS ALREADY HAD LEARNED AND KNEW HERE, BUT WISDOM IS ALWAYS RARE, AND "MINORITARIAN": J.R.R. TOLKIEN WAS ASKED BY NAZI GERMANY ABOUT THE PURITY OF HIS "ARYAN" ANCESTRY AND HIS REPLY IS EDUCATIONAL...

WHEN SHALL WE LEARN THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN "NORTHERN ANCIENT EURASIAN", "BASAL WESTERN EURASIAN" ETC. IS ACCORDINGLY NOTHING BUT A FANTASY OF MALEFIC EGO AND TOTEMIC HUMAN FALLEN NESCIENCE?

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "WESTERN EURASIAN" OR "PALEO-AMERINDIAN" BLAH BLAH BLAH ETC., ALL THE PSEUDO-SCIENTIFC TRENDY LITANY OF THE MODERN POP CONSUMER "GENETIC GENEALOGICAL" VICE-TRADE...

SHALL THIS HUMANITY LEARN ITS OWN ARTIFACTS AND COGNITIVE GHOSTS ARE PIECES OF ALL-TOO-HUMAN MENTAL NULLITY, ONE DAY, IN A MORE ENLIGHTENED WAY, BEREFT OF ALL THE PAIN IN LEARNING THE NULLITY OF THE ETHNIC-FOLK "RACIALIST" EIDOLONS OF OLD?

WHEN SHALL THESE PEOPLE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE REGRESSIVE VULNERABILITIES LURKING WITHIN THE HUMAN EGO AND ITS TRIBAL EGO-PROJECTION CAPACITY, BE HELD MORALLY ACCOUNTABLE? EVER?

AS BENITO MUSSOLINI STATED, ANGLO-SAXONDOM'S "DEMONOLOGY"-TWISTED (SCHMITTIAN) "FOE-MAN", AS THE WARLORD WAS NEXT TO HIS END, THE END CAREFULLY CRAFTED, PLANNED-OUT AND SUCCESSFULLY EXECUTED ON THE PART OF ANGLO-AMERICAN C.I.A./O.S.S.-S.A.S. "BLACK ECHELONS" SPECIALIZING IN POLITICAL MURDER, AS MUSSOLINI WAS NEARING THE BRITISH AMERICAN CAPONE-STYLE MACHINE-GUNNED DOWN GOREY DEMISE FALSELY TAUGHT TO "US" AS THE RESULT OF "SPONTANEOUS COMMUNIST PARTISAN VIOLENCE", BENITO MUSSOLINI WROTE, DAMNING, EVEN MORE DAMNING THAN THE SUITCASE OF EVIDENCE OF SECRET POLITICAL COLLABORATION BETWEEN ITALIAN FASCISM AND THE MANICHEAN "LIGHTS UNTO THE GENTILE BARBARIANS", THE EVANGELICAL-MISSIONARY GOVERNMENTS OF ANGLO-SAXONDOM, ENGLAND AND AMERICA, WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS HAD TO BE PRESERVED AND WHOSE WARPED "MILLENARIAN DEMOCRACY" WAS ADJUDGED SO "PRECIOUSLY NUMINOUS" (EXOTERIC DETRITUS FOR THE MASS SHEEPFOLD) AS TO SANCTIFY DIRECT GANGLAND-STYLE MURDER OF POLITICAL OPPONENTS:

I was not bluffing when I declared that the Fascist idea will be the idea of the twentieth century, and beyond. An external eclipse of five years, or even a decade, has absolutely no significance ... History shall vindicate me!

(Interview of 20 Apr. 1945, Gian Gaetano Cabella, in Testamento politico di Mussolini (Tosi: Rome, 1948) or Omnia Opera di Benito Mussolini, xxxii. 191-9.)

AND "OUR" BELOVED MORAL PANIC AMBIANCE-MYSTIFIED, POP-DEMONIZED FOE, "WE" SO LOVE TO HATE, WAS DARN RIGHT...IN A WAY UNFLATTERING TO MODERN SELF-CLAIMED "PROGRESSIVES"...AND IF THE FASCIST LEADER WAS UNDERSTOOD, OUR OWN MENTAL CONDITION OF SELF-DIVIDED HYPOCRISY WOULD BE REVEALED...DAMNING ALL MODERNITY, THE INFAMY OF "US" ALL...

FASCISM IS NATIONALISTIC AND SOCIALISTIC DEMOTIC MOB-POLITICS SYNTHESIZED, "OUR" MODERN UNSEEN VICE, PER NIETZSCHE'S BRUTALLY TRUTHFUL ANALYSIS: MODERN DEMO-SOCIALISTIC-FASCIST GOVERNMENTS AND MODERN REGRESSIVE MOBOCRATIC IDENTITY-POLITICS AND ITS INTELLECTUAL PROMULGATORS AND VECTORS (EVEN IF UNCONSCIOUS VICTIMIZED OBJECTS) INCLUDED, DAMN THE EPOCH AND ITS COWARDICE!

HOW TO SUBVERT A THINKER? INVERT THE THINKER IN HYPER-SURREAL VIOLENT INTERPRETIVE DISTORTION INTO THE THINKER'S VERY ANTIPODAL IMAGE - THUS "WE" MODERNS HAVE ONLY "NIETZSCHE, THE GRANDFATHER OF FASCISM" ETC., WHEN NOT LOWERING THE PHILOSOPHIC THRUST INTO HARMLESS "LINGUISTIC GAMES" VIA "POSTMODERN SEMIOTICS".

ENLIGHTENMENT TRADITION IS WHAT GAVE US THE IDEA OF AN OBJECTIVE, HUMANISTIC ENCYCLOPEDIA!

POSITIVISM-VERIFIED PAN-HUMAN MONOGENETIC UNITY, INSTEAD OF ACCENTUATION OF INSIGNIFICANT MICRO-DETAILS OF DIFFERENTIATION MEANINGLESS, SHOULD BE THE UNSTATED META-ETHICAL GUIDELINE OVERARCHING THE ARTICLE AND RELATED ARTICLES: NO KNEELING UNTO THE INVOLUTIONAL TRENDS OF THE MOMENT PERMITTED, PERIOD.

Modern distorted anthropology talks about a "Native American component" in "Western Eurasians" - this is ideological perspective, colored verbally in a falsifying direction! The underlying reality pointed to could be phrased wholly differently...

Archaic Indo-European (Proto-Celtic in particular) exhibits linguistically a MASSIVE corroborating source of data in this context, showing the (forgotten) ethnic-linguistic affinity between ALL (!) "North Americans" - what is Proto-Indo-European and Old-Native American for "to see/perceive/cognize" or "to breathe", for example?

Paleo-Celtic: Adkwiso...

Oneida: atkatho...

Cherokee: agowhtiha...

Hmm...

Paleo-IE, "breath" or "to breathe", reducible to "air", "wind": anatla...

Or: ataka...

Or: awelo...

Oneida, same: AWELYAS... Remembering, so-called *Proto-Celtic, "breath" - "AWELO-"...hmm!

Cherokee: AWOLADESGV...as above...

Or, compare Proto-IE/proto-Celtic/palaeo-Celtic (or whatever lexical phrasing is preferred!) "ataka-", the Cherokee equivalent:

A(J/YO)TASGA..."blow, blowing"...

The Stone Age arch-patriarch of BOTH "'Western Eurasian' 'Caucasoid'" and "'Native American' 'Amerindian'" people thrived once, minimally 30 thousand years ago, in the Lake Baikal, Siberian greater general regional vicinity!

So many scientific sub-fields attest to this, it is puzzling where to even begin to demonstratively provide confirmatory substantiating information, because the information (forgotten except as re-excavated by solitary, unpopular archaeological explorers) is EVERYWHERE!

E.g. - What does the Saqaaq specimen show us?

The "scientific analysts", as modernly conditioned all-too-human perpetuating agents of PRESENT-DAY ALL-DOMINANT DEMAGOGUERY distorting the lenses of reality perception, misinterpreted the Saqaaq genome sequence as to conclude the Saqqaqs were not ancestral to living Inuit-Native American ethnic populations - when the reality of north-eastern Siberian DNA congenic unity (Chuckhi, Koryak, etc.) tells a totally more multidimensional, complex ethnological story or stories, not exclusive to the above scenario and, on the other hand, not excluding a million other possibilities either...sadly for modern people, a probably multiply striated (ethnologically), scientifically "unfashionable" story not susceptible to "popularization" or "ethnic pimping"... As if no land bridge between Siberia and Alaska at that time MEANT ANYTHING!

OUR CONCEPTUAL ARTIFACTS DO NOT APPLY TO REALITY AS IT IS, AS THEY ("CAUCASOID", "NATIVE AMERICAN" ETC.) ARE PERCEPTUAL EXCRETA, STIRNERIAN "CONCEPTUAL GHOSTS", EMANATING FROM THE DISMALLY TERRESTRIAL, EGOTISTIC CONCERNS OF PETTY MODERNISTIC POLITICAL DEMAGOGUERY, PROJECTIONS OF OUR OWN DELUSIVE DEMOTIC IDENTITY-POLITICS!

"OLD WORLD" "NEW WORLD" "PRE-COLUMBIAN" BLAH BLAH BLAH MEAN N-O-T-H-I-N-G EXCEPT AS LEECHED EGOISTICALLY FROM THE LEECHING PARTISANS, OR VICTIMIZED INFECTED SUFFERERS, OF THIS ARCHETYPICALLY MODERN-DEMOTIC, HERD-SPAWNED SOCIETAL-POLITICAL DISSOCIATION FROM REALITY!

AMONG OTHERS, FRIEDRICK NIETZSCHE, MOST RECENTLY AND IMPORTANTLY, RENE GUENON...THESE TORMENTED, SOLITARY SAGES HAVE TOLD US HOW "WE" ARE PERCEPTUALLY BIFURCATED AS IF SCHIZOID IN OUR LENSES OF PERCEPTION, HOW THE VARIEGATED USURPATION OF THE RABBLE MOB ELEMENT OF HUMANKIND, HAS PARASITICALLY CO-OPTED OUR VERY ABILITY TO SEE, TO CONCEIVE, TO POSSESS COGNITION AUTHENTICALLY -

WHO LISTENED? NIETZSCHE WE AMERICANIZED, CASTRATED IN DEMO-SOCIALISTIC POST-MODERN "INTERPRETIVE POLITICIZATION"...FOUCAULT, OTHERS, WORKED SO WELL TO DISFIGURE THE MODERN HERACLITUS, DOMESTICATING THE "ANTI-DEMOTIC" ESSENCE OF THE MESSENGER AND MESSAGE, AS A PATHETIC DEFENSIVE MECHANISM AND MEANS OF SOCIOPOLITICAL "WHITEWASHING"... RENE GUENON IS KNOWN ONLY AS AN ALLEGED "PROTO-FASCIST" OR "SPIRITUALISTIC FASCIST"...

LET US REBEL AGAINST THE MOB REVOLT OF COGNITIVE DISSONANCE!

Why, oh why, is it, that, chromosomal or genetically viewed, the present-day "Old-Celtic" stocks (hmm, any one remember Keltoscythae, as in, Scythia the land of "EXTRA EUROPEAN" "MONGOLISM"-introducing "invaders"?), the genuine or preserved Celtic lineages, are LITERALLY (!) BLOOD-BROTHERS simultaneously to putatively "non-Aryan-descended" Basque European Caucasoid folk, Siberian Kets (racially, "paleo-Caucasians" or pre-Turkics similar CORPOREALLY to, perhaps, Uzbek or Turkmenistan phenotypes?), and likewise literal BLOOD-KINDRED to certain (self-identified) "Amerindians"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:B34B:A940:45B9:9D2:2589:EE59 (talk) 04:05, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

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Connection between Haplogroup Q and the Huns?

Is there any connection between this YDNA and the ancient Hun tribes, or any research? I only hold layman's understanding but I can't help but notice from the map that this marker is more prevalent within Afghanistan and Hungary/the Carpathian Basin than their surrounding areas, and both of these places were invaded by different(?) steppe peoples known as Huns/Hunas/etc. around 400AD, with Attila and his Huns in Europe, and the Hephthalites/Sveta Huna/White Huns and other Xionites/Hunas in South Asia, respectively.

The article also mentions that, at least in some tribes, a large number of Pashtuns, an East Iranian ethnic group not often associated with later Turko-Mongol movements into the area, have Q haplo. And some Pashtun tribes such as the Ghilzai are believed to have partial Hephthalite/Huna descent.

Is there any research to support this theory, that the prevalence of Q-M242 in Afghanistan and Central Europe compared to their surroundings has a connection with Hunnic tribes? And if so should "the Hun connection" be mentioned on this page, similarly to how wiki pages on Haplogroup R1a and Haplogroup R1b both contain paragraphs referencing the Proto-Indo-Europeans?

ReformedPenal (talk) 03:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Well I just had a re-read and there definitely WAS mention to this connection, not in South Asia but definitely with Huns and Xionites in general. Would it be appropriate to create a separate sub-header discussing this noteworthy historical connection?

ReformedPenal (talk) 03:32, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

"Hunnic-Sarmatian"

Looking over the sources for this article, there's a claim that a certain group is related to "Hunnic Sarmation culture" with an end date for their existence of 200 CE. The Huns aren't attested until 370 CE. It's sourced to "Family Tree DNA.com". Is this a reliable source? It looks very questionable to me. @MMFA:, you know something about Hunnic DNA studies. Is any of this legit?--Ermenrich (talk) 21:29, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Huh, this is surprisingly decent. Yamna and Karasuks have classifications under the Q-M242 subclade... that confirms a lot of my theories. Anyways I digress. I wouldn't use it as a source here, I'd choose peer-reviewed papers since we have access to those. MMFA (talk) 22:54, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Haplogroup Q (Y-DNA).PNG

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:53, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Map of haplogroup deleted

@CRD)';ZC)4qRxxvr: The map of the haplogroup names its sources only for the Americas, but contains data for Asia and Europe, too. If even the sources covered all areas of the map, it would still be WP:SYNTH. --Rsk6400 (talk) 05:01, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Maulucioni: Don't know if you saw my concerns stated above. I'm not the only person to see such maps as WP:OR. On Commons, we had a deletion discussion about a similar map, Commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Haplogroup_R1b_(Y-DNA).PNG. The map was kept, because Commons has no rule against OR. One of the editors voting to "keep" the map said that it is "original research". Another editor said it was made through a "creative process", which is just another word for OR. --Rsk6400 (talk) 18:41, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

The haplogroup maps are intended to represent the content of the corresponding article. The maps I have created are based on multiple references, especially the articles in the List of Y-chromosome haplogroups in populations of the world. The maps can be improved or they can be replaced by better ones, but they should not be erased because there seems to be a mood of censorship against genetic anthropology and any maps that graph it, so I suggest being vigilant. I made this map in 2010 and have not reviewed it since, so I hope to review it soon to see if it needs any corrections or updates.--Maulucioni (talk) 02:51, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

@Maulucioni: I don't think that there is such a thing as a "mood of censorship", but there is verifiability as one of basic principles of WP. A map contains information for each region shown, and so the sources for each region have to be provided. This is even more important because such maps are often used or misused or even manipulated in order to prove some political claim. For instance, older versions of Bashkirs (before August 26) used a map of R1b to show "Bashkorostan as a genetic isolate". I don't say that the map of R1b was wrong, nor do I say that this kind of information or these maps should be suppressed. I only say that they should be well sourced because the information contained can be extremely sensitive. --Rsk6400 (talk) 19:26, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

@Rsk6400: The sources are all in the article. Please point out any discrepancies between the map and the data + sources that would invalidate the map. May I ask why you have left the haplogroup maps for H, L, N, and O alone? --Hr8WDHUABYGjW (talk) 10:20, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@Hr8WDHUABYGjW: WP:BURDEN says, The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material. You might also like to look at WP:IC. You already read my answer to your question at Commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Haplogroup_Q_(Y-DNA).PNG. --Rsk6400 (talk) 11:43, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@Rsk6400: Arbitrarily picking and choosing which maps to remove sounds like bad editing. I ask why you, after being informed of your inconsistency, haven't removed the maps for H, L, N, and O yet, like a police man who shuts down a young girl's lemonade stand for not having a license to sell lemonade yet deliberately ignores all the other unlicensed lemonade stands scattered across town. The map is @Maulucioni:'s, so I hope he might have a master file that cites the sources. Hr8WDHUABYGjW (talk) 12:53, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@Maulucioni: The map of Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)‎ has the additional problem that it was manipulated by LenguaMapa, confirmed sockpuppet of WorldCreaterFighter. --Rsk6400 (talk) 05:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

I have reviewed the map of Haplogroup H. Next I will review and update the map of Q.--Maulucioni (talk) 22:21, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Removal of content pertaining to Latin America

I removed these paragraphs from the article:

Extended content

As a result of five centuries of wide-scale intermarriage, "mestizaje", between Native Americans and Europeans, today in Mesoamerica and South America the frequencies of Q-M242 (mostly M3) among the whole male population of each country are lower than Tribal/Mayan populations, but nonetheless run far higher than in the population of North America. Also the second most Native American prevalent haplosubclade of R1b(M269) is found in both the American (Indigenous) population and is the most common Y-chromosome haplosubclade among European males (especially those who descend from those nations who colonized the Americas) leads to what may be a Native American male inherited trait to be labeled, incorrectly, as a European one. Based on the data above, the average frequency in the whole male population of Mesoamerica and South America is estimated to be about 18%. However, extrapolating for the entirety of Latin America would lead to extreme errors as the overall studies sample sizes are far too small and do not account for genetic drift. Further, they are based on the smallest ancient dataset (corpses) in adequate condition available for any race on the planet. To point out, this skews any analysis towards a more European proportion. This also ignores the recent R1b(M269) misattribution.

I do not find evidence in Haak et al. stating that Latin American males inherited haplogroup clades of R1b from Native Americans.

The second paragraph removed appears to be original research, like the one preceding it. Hunan201p (talk) 16:22, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

References

Excess

@Wikiuser1314: Hi, it is regarding these changes. Isn't it excessive to discuss about the origin of haplogroups P and K in an article about Q. I believe that much detail should be in those respective articles. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:30, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Hi, yeah on a second thought you are right, thats unnecessary there. I initially tried to correct the paragraph regarding P and ANE, but thats better to be moved in the correct article. Thanks! Regards.–Wikiuser1314 (talk) 12:36, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks and welcome . - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:40, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Use of term "Indian" to refer to Indigenous South Americans

Indigenous South Americans do not self-identify as "Indians". Usage of the term "Indian" to refer to Indigenous Americans is a phenomenon very specific to the United States. The term "Indian" (or the Spanish form "indio") is extremely offensive in most parts of South America and should always be avoided. Furthermore, the term "South American Indian" is confusing as it could refer to Indian (South Asian) people living in South America. 69.143.146.97 (talk) 18:41, 20 February 2024 (UTC)