Talk:Han Sorya

Bad Translation, Needs POV and Content Work

Came across this article by accident. What's up with this weird "jackals" word choice for sungnyangi? That's not a North Korean translation. North Korean news and propaganda in English always say "wolves" for sungnyangi. Don't believe me? Do a STALIN search (www.nk-news.net/search.php) of the KCNA website.

• 0 results for jackal
• 0 results for jackals
• 4 results for wolfish
• 39 results for wolves
• 105 results for wolf

Still don't believe me? Heck, just look at North Korean cartoons: "Squirrel and Hedgehog - Episode 31" (www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuXJBJWR36Y). You'll see the word sungnyangi in Korean letters (승냥이) at 0:39. Guess what. The sungnyangi in the cartoon are -- big, bad, and mean grey wolves.

I am seeing in the article that this "jackals" mess up comes from some guy called Myers. Okay, whoever he is, that's a really bad translation. I mean, like, really bad. Bad POV in the article with him too.

Checked out one of the linked works in the endnotes, "Savage Nature and Noble Spirit in Han Sorya's Wolves", by some other guy called West. Some discussion on pages 3 to 5 about how North Korea got the wolf/wolves propaganda from the 1930s to 1950s Soviet Union under Stalin. So how come that isn't in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Porkypines (talk • contribs) 09:35, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Official Title of Short Novel is "Wolf"

Continuing from my last post. Official North Korean title of that short novel is Wolf. Here are Korean and English sections from KCNA, August 31, 2015.

연극 《승냥이》 공연 한창 / Drama "Wolf" Re-created in DPRK

(평양 8월 31일발 조선중앙통신)최근 조선의 국립연극극장에서 연극 《승냥이》공연이 진행되고있다. / Pyongyang, August 31 (KCNA) The performance of drama "Wolf" is now going on at the National Theater in Pyongyang.

국립연극단 예술인들이 출연하는 이 작품은 주체40(1951)년 한설야가 창작한 단편소설 《승냥이》에 기초하여 지난 시기 형상하여 공연하던것을 재형상한것이다. / The drama, adapted from a short novel "Wolf" written by Han Sol Ya in Juche 40 (1951), has been recently re-created by the National Theatrical Troupe.

(Korean: http://www.kcna.co.jp/calendar/2015/08/08-31/2015-0831-014.html; English: http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2015/201508/news31/20150831-20ee.html) Porkypines (talk) 02:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

@Porkypines: "Jackals" is the name this novella is best known in English because it's the one Myers used in his 1994 English translation. Not only was that the only English translation of the novella but it appeared in the only book-length work on North Korean literature that had been published in the West (there have been more in recent times). Myers is the best authority on Han and "Jackals" for sure, though his later work on North Korean ideology is controversial. For a discussion of the name, see Fields 2015 who notes that "Dholes" is the literal translation and "Wolves" is sometimes used, but settles on "Jackals".

I've made some changes to the text based on your suggestions and explained the issue in a footnote. Nevertheless, "Jackals" is undeniably the WP:COMMONNAME. As for KCNA results, don't expect to find anything about people who have been purged and removed from official histories; that theater adaptation was the only thing I could find and even that is quite surprising. You'll find out that the rest of your hits for "wolf" and "wolves" don't talk about this work at all. I've added David-West's view on the use of beast imagery in Soviet texts. There is a lot more on "Jackals" and the section could be split to its own article someday. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 09:51, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Han Sorya/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sagecandor (talk · contribs) 20:39, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

I'll do this one. Sagecandor (talk) 20:39, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Successful good article nomination

I am glad to report that this article nomination for good article status has been promoted. This is how the article, as of December 19, 2016, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: I did a minor copy edit but otherwise the writing style is pretty good. Good enough for good article. I'd suggest getting some outside help from people unfamiliar with the subject matter to copy edit a little bit more for succinct flow, remove some excess verbiage, but altogether it's good.

2. Verifiable?: Very good use of in-line citations, and great reference section structure, with the reference notes and the works cited working together quite well for ease of verification for others in the future.

3. Broad in coverage?: The article does indeed cover all the main aspects of the person, we get a good sense of his life and his impact to society through history. I would change Personal life to "Early life", but that's about it.

4. Neutral point of view?: At first I thought the article was a bit too hagiographic. But then I searched myself for outside reference coverage, and came back to the article to find that yes, Han Sŏrya and North Korean Literature: The Failure of Socialist Realism in DPRK is indeed cited heavily in the article. Also the article makes mention of him being involved in purges, and being purged. These are signs of good neutral presentation.

5. Stable? No edit wars, no disruption, primarily nominator active in edit history going back months. Talk page shows a couple complaints from a few weeks ago, but no major arguments or conflicts.

6. Images?: One image hosted on Wikimedia Commons and another fair use. 2nd has good fair use rationale. First is okay on Commons.

This article is good. It's not great, but it's good. Strongly suggest further copy editing. But it's good enough for good article. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to have it Good article reassessed. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations.— Sagecandor (talk) 23:27, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the review and input, Sagecandor. I will keep improving the article and take your suggestions into account. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 08:45, 20 December 2016 (UTC)