Talk:Haka

Beginnings?

The origin of the haka needs expansion - the character of Tāne-rore as a personification of heat shimmer, represented by the quivering hands of the performers, should be added. We also need the story of Tinirau and Kae, which includes an account of the first haka performance.

Could I encourage contributors on all things Māori to use the macron on long vowels of Māori words and names? These vowels should appear at the bottom of the page when you're editing.

Kia ora—Copey 2 01:06, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Earliest rugby use

Did the first performance of the new All Black haka take place at Jade Stadium in Christchurch? Since that time has Ka mate ever been used in the South Island? One problem with Ka mate was its link with Te Rauparaha's campaigns against Ngāi Tahu, the iwi (Māori tribe) of most of the South Island. This meant that its use in Ngāi Tahu territory was a breach of Māori protocol. —Copey 2 00:43, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The first performance of Kapa O Pango was in the South Island, but not at Christchurch. It was at Carisbrook in Dunedin. Interesting point... — Dale Arnett 17:11, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Haka of the All Blacks

Just some random thoughts. There are (at least) three articles which deal with the All Blacks and their 2 haka. This one has info on the ABs and their new haka, and Ka Mate haka has info about the old haka, and there is more info at All Blacks. Does the info on the All Black haka(s) need to be moved to one place, or just be a section of the main AB article? And maybe a book like Haka! The Dance of a Noble People by Timoti Karetu could be used as source to round out this page with more info on the Maori uses and history of the haka. Kahuroa 19:52, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

In any event,surely a better video of the AB haka could be found. This is shot from a bad angle and all that can be heard is crowd noise. Toyokuni3 (talk) 04:55, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Kapa O Pango

Expanding on the last comment, couldn't Kapa O Pango be spun off into its own article? The French Wikipedia has already done this. — Dale Arnett 15:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

New Page created for the 2 AB haka

• Haka of the All Blacks.

Since nobody objected in the month since I made the suggestion above. Allows this article to deal solely with the haka as a traditional part of Maori culture, and combines the scattered AB haka pages into one. Kahuroa 19:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

New Page for Haka in popular culture

• Haka in popular culture - allows this article to deal solely with the haka as a traditional dance genre Kahuroa 06:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Literal meaning

On a PRI radio program today there was a story about Tongan haka performers in Texas. They said the literal meaning is "fiery breath" in Maori. Is this correct? Badagnani 21:25, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Only if you believe in False etymology and only if you ignore vowel length and mutilate word order. This so-called literal meaning is arrived at by noting that the word hā (long ā vowel) means 'breath' and the word kā (long ā vowel) means 'alight'. This ignores the fact that haka has short a vowels. Actually, kā derives from an older form *kaha or *kasa, and hā from an older form *saa - that would produce something like *saakasa as the older form instead of the reconstructed form *saka (see note in article). Kahuroa 10:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

haka in high schools

The haka is also performed by the Trinity High School football team before games in Euless, Texas. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.201.251.170 (talk) 21:06, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

Haka and gender

This article seems to be "pushing a barrow" - i.e. the role of women in haka. Much of it seems more to be making a point that women are involved, than simply providing a general and factualy discussion of the haka phenomenon.A.J.Chesswas 21:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmm - I don't think it's pushing a barrow at all - not much of the article is involved with that aspect, and I think it's fair enough to address some of the misconceptions about the haka, the biggest one of which is that haka equals 'war dance by men'. It is a stub though, and much more should be included Kahuroa 00:07, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Focus on misconception

This article is started with "there is a misconception but.." does it not make more sense to say, "this is what a haka is. there may, however be misconceptions" it just seems like the entire article is focussed on saying what a haka isn't rather than talking about the dance itself.

-The Talking Sock talk contribs 06:31, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

please add real

I'm no pro at all but request that such a haka pro add to this whole article the real meaning of the haka dances and movements,,,,, I can 'guess' that it is a spirit / chi focus and builder that has actual real use in readying a warrior to fight , in fact making him far stronger , far more powerful ...same for use in sports, etc ... pro's please add this info to this article 24.44.215.132 (talk) 01:51, 29 August 2016 (UTC)ladychijr

and it is also clear watching haka on many videos that it ALSO is a maori culture, widely felt emotional sharing across warrior group and onlookersand so, spiritual/religious ... 24.44.215.132 (talk) 01:59, 29 August 2016 (UTC)lilemo

Can anyone add more specific details [= meaning] of the hand, arm, legs, feet gestures. Kneeling, walking, looking to the sides. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:9B1:100:1:3C:DC30:274C:1F4A (talk) 03:06, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

link 8

hey all,

link 8 is dead, thought it was good to report it here

Jasperwillem (talk) 10:17, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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"frequently mislabeled as a war dance"

Re this recent edit which references this paper, is this a sufficiently strong source to challenge the "accepted wisdom" (e.g. Encyclopædia Britannica) and to change (only) the lead section so radically? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:43, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Haka Expert Timoti Karetu agrees with this statement further down the page saying that only three forms of haka were ever used for war. Haka cannot be considered a war dance because not all types of haka were used for warfare. Secondly, the paper quoted has been through a double blind peer review and is written by a Maori academic. It quotes everything that is academically relevant to 'haka.' It is more authoritative on the subject then Encyclopedia Britannica. By saying that Encyclopedia Britannica is that only relevant source is racist because your saying that only knowledge which is validated by white people is relevant. The article is validated in the same non-indigenous way. I would suggest that you come join the Maori Renaissance you can start by reading Linda Tuhiwai Smith's Decolonizing Methodologies Hemopereki (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:47, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

I certainly wasn't suggesting that "that Encyclopedia Britannica is that only relevant source". I was asking a question. I'd be grateful if you did not label me as a racist. It now seems that your edit has been motivated by a political cause. I see that the source you have used is by someone called Hemopereki Simon at the University of Wollongong. I wonder would you care to clarify the identity of that person? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:00, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

This gives an undue focus to certain points of view. I am of the opinion that a lead needs to be agreed on the talk page first. I have restored a stable version.--Hazhk (talk) 22:21, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

I hope the current revision, which notes the "war cry" aspect, can balance different perspectives. I think other changes can be discussed here.--Hazhk (talk) 22:48, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Reference

• "Iwi claim to All Black haka turned down". New Zealand Herald. 2 July 2007. Retrieved 4 November 2018. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)

I am moving this reference here [1], as it didn't seem strictly necessary and could potentially provide a source of confusion. 109.145.79.163 (talk) 16:08, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Video

I really think a video is needed somewhere in the article. I think even the lead would be a good place for one. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:20, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Rugby use, and cultural appropriation.

In the header, it is said that "This is considered by some Māori to be a form of cultural appropriation." This statement is, at least a little bit, negatively biased. There are also sources that say that Ngāti Toa "are proud that the 'All Blacks' use this [Ka Mate] haka". See for example -“Ka Mate Ka Mate”and the Protection of Traditional Knowledge- by Susy Frankel (p.8 in article, p.200 in publication).

I suggest adding this line as well. I.e., rewriting it along the lines of "This is considered by some Māori to be a form of cultural appropriation [citation][citation], while others are proud of the 'All Blacks' use of the Haka.[citation]".

Either that, or leaving it out altogether. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.173.41.47 (talk) 12:49, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Badly written

This article is full of quotations. In encyclopedia writing, a style that is unlike any other writing style, quotations should be avoided and should be used only in rare circumstances. Paraphrase the quotation and put the attribution in the source. We also don't use the phrase "According to…" because that puts the attribution within the sentence, which creates a redundancy since the attribution is, again, in the source. Today is not a day I can go through and correct all of these, but I will try to get to it as soon as possible. I encourage all editors to join me in the project of making these corrections in this article. Best wishes and Merry Christmas to you all. 2601:482:17F:E9D0:79BB:8587:7EB8:D2BD (talk) 20:03, 17 December 2023 (UTC)