Talk:Hajji Ebrahim Shirazi/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 21:20, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:20, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Sources are reliable as far as I can evaluate them.

• File:Old map of Shiraz.jpg has a broken source link, and does not give the original date of publication, to verify the PD tag.

Deleted it.

• Ditto for File:Haram-etemad.jpg.

Deleted it.

• For File:Mirza Shafi Mazandarani.jpg is not inaccurate, but "PD-because|too old" isn't the best way to tag these. Doesn't have to be fixed for GA, just FYI; fix it if you have a moment.

Done

• "Ebrahim, who coming from an originally Jewish family, inherited his father's title kadkhoda (warden) of the Balakaft quarter of Shiraz, later became kadkhoda-bashi (chief warden) of all of the city's areas adjacent to Balakaft." The syntax of this is mangled and I can't tell how it's intended to read.

Amended it.

• Can you explain kalantar inline as you do with kadhoda and kadkhoda-bashi? Or a link would work for any of these too.

kalantar is the equivalent to lord mayor, I think I did say that in the lead.

• "and connected with Agha Mohammad Khan": "connected" is vague: made an alliance with? Worked for?

Done.

• A couple more dates in the lead would help -- when did Jafar die, for example? When did Lotf Ali Khan flee from Agha Mohammad Khan? When was Ebrahim's dispute with Lotf Ali Khan?

Done

• Some copyediting needed; I made some copyedits myself, but here are a few points where I couldn't be sure what was meant:
  • "relinquished his conquering"

Amended it.

• • "was always in the presence of Agha Mohammad Khan"

Done

• • "an army that withdrew in Qom and led Agha Mohammad to easily capture the city"

Done

• • "and executed most of the loyals to him" -- most of the men? Most of the aristocrats? Most of the bureaucracy? And again later with "purging the loyals to Lotf Ali Khan". I think this would work as "and executed many of those loyal to him" for the first one, and "purging those loyal to Lotf Ali Khan" for the second one, if you're OK with that phrasing.

Thanks, done

• • "He then crowned king on 23 January 1789": "was crowned", I assume?

Yes, amended it.

• • "the youngest son of Sadeq Khan who survived from Sayed Morad Khan"
• "Ebrahim witnessed Karim Khan's administration and consulted with the remnants of the Safavid bureaucracy": I'm not sure what "witnessed" and "consulted" mean here -- what did he witness? What did he consult them about?

Amended it.

• "Another army led by the Zand Khan was defeated near Kashan and Zand Khan fled to Shiraz": is it "the Zand Khan" or just "Zand Khan"?

Honestly, I don't like to refer to them like that; amended it to 'he'.

• In the section on Jafar Khan's reign, we refer to Agha Mohammad Khan and Mohammad Khan Zand, and sometimes to just "Mohammad Khan". In context it's usually clear who the latter refers to, but I would avoid it; it is confusing to readers trying to keep the names straight.

  Amended it

  Looks like we still have some references to just "Mohammad Khan"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:15, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

In the same section? Because I can't seem to find them.

"Ebrahim sent troops under the leadership of Abdullah Khan Zand to fight Mohammad Khan; two armies fought near Shiraz; in the battle, Mohammad Khan was defeated and killed" has two instances. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:37, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Amended it Amir Ghandi (talk) 17:39, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

• "An uprising against Morad Khan was staged": "staged" implies "faked"; is that the intended meaning?

No, amended it

• There seems to be something wrong with the dates in the "Coup against Sayed Morad Khan" section; we get May 8, 1789 followed by 23 January 1789. And the date formats should be consistent, though that's not a requirement for GA.
• "In correspondence with Lotf Ali, Ebrahim expressed his support and assured Sayed Morad he would help him regain the throne": this seems like it has to be wrong. Ebrahim assures Sayed Morad that he (Ebrahim) is planning to overthrow Sayed Morad?

I meant Lotf Ali Khan; amended it.

• Having read half the article, I have started to get a sense of the political context and rivalries. I think it would be best to have a short section in "Background", before the "Family history" subsection, titled something like "Iran in the 18th century" or "Political situation", and give a short account -- no more than four or five sentences of the Zand and Qajar rivalries (if that's the right way to put it). For example I didn't realize that Karim Khan was a Zand till late in the article, nor that Ebrahim had stayed loyal to one Zand or another for years, until switching to Agha Mohammad Khan.

  Done

  Looks good except that I don't understand "The reins of rivalry between Zands and Qajars thus fell into the hands of": can you clarify? :::Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:15, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

  Well, rein means "to control or direct with or as if with", so what I meant was that Agha Mohammad Khan was the new leader of this opposition. Amir Ghandi (talk) 12:58, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

  I think it would be better to be less metaphorical. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:45, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

  Amended it Amir Ghandi (talk) 14:08, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Amir Ghandi (talk) 13:13, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

• "and sent for Lotf Ali Khan": surely "sent for" is the wrong verb? It means he sent a request to Lotf Ali Khan to come to him.

Amended it.

• "The leaders of Shiraz expected another member of the Zand dynasty would be ousted after the removal of Lotf Ali Khan": again "ousted" can't be what you intend to say -- it would mean the leaders expected there to be another Zand after Lotf Ali Khan, and this next Zand would also be ousted.

I meant enthroned. Amended it.

• "Their aim was to persuade Agha Mohammad Khan to consolidate his rule over Georgia and establish a link with Europe through Mingrelia. Ebrahim, however, told them Iranian rule over Georgia was legitimate ": I don't follow this. They want Agha Mohammad Khan to rule Georgia; Ebrahim, "however" (implying he disagrees) says Iranian rule over Georgia is legitimate. So why "however" if they don't disagree?
• "His appointment was mostly because of his presence in the invasion of Khorasan, in which Mirza Shafi went with Agha Mohammad Khan as an advisor. In Mashhad, by his advice, Shahrokh Afshar was tortured to expose Nader Shah's royal jewels" I don't follow this. "His" presumably refers to "Mirza Shafi Mazandarani"? Why does Mirza Shafi's presence in the invasion of Khorasan mean Agha Mohammad Khan would appoint him as kalantar of Tehran? And why is it relevant to this article why he was appointed? And why does it matter that Shahrokh Afshar was tortured?

Sharoukh Afshar was the grandson of Nader Shah, and Mirza Shafi endorsed Agha Mohammad Khan to have him turtured in order to find the place of Nader Shah's royal treasure. Amended the paragraph in the article.

• "Hussein Qoli Khan, the brother of Baba Khan": suggest "Hussein Qoli Khan (the brother of Baba Khan)" to avoid this appearing to be two different people.

Done

• "According to Abbas Amanat, Ebrahim is "the least understood statesmen of modern Persian history": I can't change the contents of a quote, but this makes no sense: should it be "least understood statesman" rather than "statesmen"?

Statesman is the correct one; amended it.

• "and as one who inflicted heavy losses": on whom?

On the realm's interests; added it to the article

• "because he was a case of wrath of Fath-Ali Shah": what does this mean?

I meant that the Qajar historians had to portray him negatievally to avoid portraying Fath-Ali Shah as man who unjustly killed Ebrahim.

That's everything. I had to do a lot of minor copyediting; if you nominate more articles at GAN, please consider getting a GOCE copyedit first -- it wasn't bad enough to fail the article but it made it a lot harder to review. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:09, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

I've struck the points addressed so far; there are a couple more questions above. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:15, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

OK, just one more point. What does this sentence mean? "Yaqub Khan was the son of Abdollah Khan, the youngest son of Sadeq Khan who survived from Sayed Morad Khan.". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:54, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Sadeq Khan had a son named Abdollah who had a son named Yaqub who managed to survive while Sayed Morad Khan killed his kinsmen. I think I could amend it to Yaqub Khan, grandson of Sadeq Khan, who survived the Sayed Morad's purge. Amir Ghandi (talk) 18:21, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Last fix looks good; passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:51, 1 September 2022 (UTC)