Talk:HMS Surprise (replica ship)

Sails again

Update needed. Did it sail in March or April 2007? --Dj245 19:12, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Article Name Change?

The Rose has officially and legally had it's name changed to the Surprise. Addressing it as the Rose seems improper.

• Source? Wikibofh_(talk) 17:56, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, page move suggested. Laylaholic 15:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Update details?

The ship underwent some fairly heavy modifications in becoming the Surprise, such as changing the stern and bowsprit, and adding royals, studdingsails, etc. - does anyone have the new details? Laylaholic 15:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Lots of details in http://legacy.sname.org/sections/san_diego/Presentations/2007-10_Reviving_Surprise.pdf Drf5n (talk) 04:39, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

Rose (ship) → Surprise (ship) – Ship has been officially reregistered by the San Diego Maritime Museum Laylaholic 15:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support if there's a cite showing she was renamed. Otherwise we're just taking someone's word for it. --SigPig 17:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose it should be something like HMS Surprise (replica ship) if the official name is HMS Surprise. The use of HMS in a ship's name is an major solecism unless the ship holds a royal warrant to do so. Dabbler 22:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

HMS Surprise seems a better choice, but as none of the other tall ships have the (replica ship) tag, I'll just go with HMS Surprise (ship). Laylaholic 22:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

For proof of name change, check www.tallshiprose.org "Now renamed Surprise in honor of her role in the film..." Laylaholic 21:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

That is just a statement that the ship is now "known" as Surprise and does not prove that the ship Rose has "officially" been renamed Surprise. If you go to San Diego you may well see signs that the ship is called Surprise, but what is the name on her US government registration papers? Dabbler 00:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I checked with Bill Kayser, the webmaster of www.tallshiprose.org and he informed me that he did not know for certain that it had "officially been changed", he had heard it second hand through the grapevine. Perhaps the MMSD will be able to tell us. Dabbler 15:06, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's the definitive answer. I trust that this will end the debate?

 From:  "Warren Potts" <info@sdmaritime.org> 
Subject:  RE: Surprise or Rose? 
Sent:  Wed, 6 Sep 2006 12:52:50 -0700 

 
She has been registered as the HMS Surprise.

Warren L. Potts Dep.Office Manager & Special Events Liaison

Maritime Museum of San Diego 1492 N. Harbor Drive San Diego, CA 92101

Ph. 619-234-9153 ext. 101 Fax 619-234-8345 Email- info@sdmaritime.org Website- www.sdmaritime.org Laylaholic 21:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Oppose move. The above comes in the category of inadmissible no original research, but that isn't the biggest problem. Our Wikipedia:Naming conventions are not based on some notion of "official name". This article should be under the name it is known by, in connection with what makes it notable and worthy of an encyclopedia entry in the first place. Gene Nygaard 10:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, I agree that it should be "under the name it is known by, in connection with what makes it notable and worthy of an encyclopedia entry in the first place". At this moment in time, this ship is most well known for its role in the film Master and Commander: Far Side of the World. In that film it was known by the name HMS Surprise. San Diego Maritime Museum saw that people were making the association between the name and the ship, and reregistered it accordingly. Furthermore, the ship underwent extensive modification for the film, and now appears a completely different vessel from the old Rose. The ship is now known almost universally as the HMS Surprise, so if this article is not deserving of a change of name, then what is? Laylaholic 22:57, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I have had unofficial contact with a museum official who infoermed me that while the Museum considers her to be called HMS Surprise, in fact the official US government registry may still refer to her as Rose. Can anyone find out what the official name is rather than what the Museum wishes to call her? The statement above from the museum is not conclusive in my opinion, I would like to see a definitive reference to an official US government document. Dabbler 19:21, 25 September 2006 (UTC).

If you go aboard the ship her documents are displayed outside the great cabin. She is registered as Surprise. --99.88.197.53 (talk) 18:20, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

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